Senility/dementia

[EcclesCake]

Are there any simple tests or indicators to look out for of senility/dementia?

I have to admit to not appreciating the difference between the two but I am concerned about an ageing relative who is presenting some unusual behaviours.

I have no doubt they know the day of the week and who the PM is but I was wondering if there are other tests/observations to be made in the behaviour of the elderly that may indicate the onset of senility or whatever.

[woofgang]

apart from brain scans, its very difficult. Infections can mimic dementia as can dehydration and some virus illnesses; also of course mental health issues.
Can I ask what behaviours you are worried about?

[jake-the-peg]

There's a test your GP can do

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/dementia-guide/Pages/dementia-diagnosis.aspx

My father did one some years back and scored 22 out of 30 I think it was then

6 months later he couldn't complete the test so it's worth repeating

[EcclesCake]

Thanks Woof.

In this instance the person in question was adding milk to their cup of tea whilst announcing that they were going to leave their drink and go and clean their teeth. I know it is trivial but there are other examples of dissociative behaviour.

[davetuc]

Hi Eccles. My dad has got slowly worse over the last couple of years. Look out for repetitive questioning, obsession with small things like when the bins go out, overdoing the things they know how to do i.e my dad is constantly shaving with his electric razor, and also keep an eye on money as my dad started buying huge amounts of random stuff like batteries, lightbulbs, etc and storing them under the bed. It's probably different for every individual and you have to remember it's an illness they can't control, no matter how hard it gets for them or their family. Age Concern were a great help and might be worth getting in touch with them. Hope that helps.

[jake-the-peg]

No it's important to try and catch these things early.

In some cases there are some drugs that slow the onset.

In my father's case it was vascular demetia (second most common) with some of those a stent can be inserted to improve blood flow in some cases - sady he wasn't suitable

[EcclesCake]

Tanks Dave & Jake. I know my example is incredibly trivial but there is a worrying 'vagueness' where they seem to completely zone out and suddenly butt into a conversation with some irrelevance whilst oblivious to what has been going on around them.

[EcclesCake]

Thanks...even!

Why do typos only become apparent after you press submit?

[jno]

I have no doubt they know the day of the week and who the PM is

funnily enough I was being investigated for a stroke a couple of years ago (result negative); I got asked those questions and didn't know the answer to either of them. Retired people like me often don't know the day of the week, since it's irrelevant to their daily lives; and I was abroad so didn't know the PM's name. Fortunately the medics were able to see the sense in this. But it does suggest that asking simple questions doesn't always prove anything.

[woofgang]

jno, I used to administer that test. Almost everybody, even those with quite bad damage knew Mrs Thatcher, then John Major took over and scores dropped amazingly! I am retired and not good at knowing the time as i no longer wear a watch and its not that important, ditto, day of the week.
If you are concerned, don't try and diagnose your friend yourself, get the person to see a doctor. That kind of word mix up, especially if it is of recent sudden onset says vascular insult (mini stroke) or intracranial pressure issue rather than alzheimers.

[EcclesCake]

Thanks Woof. The person in question is rather deceitful and knows how to put on an act to please people, they are rarely honest in their self assessment for the Drs. They are of an age and disposition where 'one doesn't discuss such things'.........

They are a very tricky customer but do need help, I'm just at a loss to work out how that help can be provided........

[society]

I think my Mum is of similar behaviour/attitude, and in denial.

Eccles, that person is extremely fortunate to have you looking out for them.

[ummmm]

My nan started doing small things like putting milk and tea bags into the kettle instead of the teapot. Or put dinner on and a while later get up to make a start on dinner.

These weren't daily occurrences, just now and then.

Another problem we had was her liking to have a drink. She'd a have a few but forget she'd had them and have another few...

[woofgang]

Eccles, then all you can do is let be unless you honestly believe that they are a danger to themselves and to others, eg have set fire to their kitchen or the house is so dirty as to be a health risk. Losing your memory can be terrifying and I can understand why some people just don't want to accept it or take any action. i wouldn't call it deceit myself, people are entitled to make their own choices and decisions, even if they aren't the ones that most of us would make.
The person is lucky to have you though.

[EcclesCake]

Thanks all. It is not drink related, that I am quite sure of.

I'm curious, Woof, why do you say they are not being deceitful? I am at a loss to understand why someone would not want to enhance their later years and prefer to suffer by not being open with the healthcare professionals they see regularly, which is admittedly my perception of their situation.

[EcclesCake]

Woof, this is clearly an area you are familiar with and as would like to pick your brains if you don't mind....

When I say deceitful I'm referring (mostly) to self-deception. I can appreciate how frightening it is to lose ones faculties but surely a confidential discussion with a healthcare professional would allow you to unburden yourself and ultimately enhance your overall wellbeing and quality of life?

[pixie373]

Haven't had time to read through thread properly. Will do a bit later. "senility" just means old- it isn't an illness. Doctor can do questionnaire for dementia- questions like- who is prime minister, what day of the week is it? Etc. There is actually no definitive test. Doesn't show on brain scans etc and can only be actually found in post mortem. First step is doctor x

[Old_Geezer]

But what is the doc going to do apart from send you for a blood test and then hope you just go away and stop bothering them ?
Self testing would be very useful were such a thing to exist.

[murraymints]

All of the above.. fil with Alzheimer's started as just forgetfulness....then doing daft stuff like ummmm said...forgetting words for every day objects...short memory gone .long memory ok..repetitive conversation....aggression...personality change.....very sad condition..the illness takes the person long before death !

[jno]

woofgang, yes, one of my forebears got to the stage where they had to lock away all the matches otherwise he'd burn the house down. They eventually locked him away instead. It said senile dementia on his death certificate. His wife eventually died of the same thing. It might have been Alzheimer's in either case, I don't think that was a diagnosis in those days, about 100 years ago.

[woofgang]

It may be just me but I think that the word "deceitful" sounds pejorative, a criticism if you like. You don't understand the choices that they are making and in their shoes would make different ones. That's fair enough. I might look at your life and not be able to understand some of the choices that you make/have made and think that you "should" make different ones.
All I am saying is that what they do and who they tell is their choice. It ceases to be their choice if they put others at risk or are adjudged not to have the mental capacity to make that choice but until that time...as i said, there is nothing that you can do.
In case you think I am being cold and professional about this, my own mother had similar problems, as well as physical ones and it was very hard keeping her living in her own home (her choice) until she died. It wasn't safe for her and she could have been much more comfortable somewhere else but that was her choice.