News5 mins ago
Police Caution...can it be appealed ? Impact on CRB
53 Answers
I'm a Headteacher and following the end of a relationship I was slow on the uptake and texted/called/visited to persuade partner that we should try again...nothing violent...nothing malicious...just naive love frankly.....when I finally got the message I went one last time to see her and she called the polcie and had me arrested for Harrassment.
Now I know that I was stupid, naive,,,etc etc...but I just thought the police would do the right thing...I am utterly ashamed that I ended up in a cell and frankly they could have got me to sign anything to get out of there...I agreed to a formal caution without speaking to a solicitor...now of course I have a caution against my CRB...which clearly in teaching is a massive no no...I've been to my Union (who basically said not to worry too much...minor offence...shouldn't have any impact really...) and now the school Chair of Govs who has to decide if this offence indicates that i'm unfit to teach/lead a school (frankly I feel so stupid...being so idiotic might !)....
I just know that a solicitor would have had a dispassionate view and moved things quickly away...frankly the time in the cell was more than enough to ensure I never ever go anywhere near the girl again...let alone the career threatening caution....
Can you appeal a caution ? I appreciate the fct that I signed to agree...but there almost needs a cooling off period...when the emotion wears away a little and rationality sets back in...
Is there anything at all that can be done ?
Now I know that I was stupid, naive,,,etc etc...but I just thought the police would do the right thing...I am utterly ashamed that I ended up in a cell and frankly they could have got me to sign anything to get out of there...I agreed to a formal caution without speaking to a solicitor...now of course I have a caution against my CRB...which clearly in teaching is a massive no no...I've been to my Union (who basically said not to worry too much...minor offence...shouldn't have any impact really...) and now the school Chair of Govs who has to decide if this offence indicates that i'm unfit to teach/lead a school (frankly I feel so stupid...being so idiotic might !)....
I just know that a solicitor would have had a dispassionate view and moved things quickly away...frankly the time in the cell was more than enough to ensure I never ever go anywhere near the girl again...let alone the career threatening caution....
Can you appeal a caution ? I appreciate the fct that I signed to agree...but there almost needs a cooling off period...when the emotion wears away a little and rationality sets back in...
Is there anything at all that can be done ?
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You were given the caution because you admitted you were guilty. If you had refused to accept it, the police would have had to decide whether or not to go ahead with a prosecution.
It is possible to appeal but very difficult, especially for such an educated man. You cannot claim to have not understood the process, for example, and if your appeal is successful you could still be prosecuted in court for the original offence.
It is possible to appeal but very difficult, especially for such an educated man. You cannot claim to have not understood the process, for example, and if your appeal is successful you could still be prosecuted in court for the original offence.
You can't appeal a caution.
You should have been told that if you accepted the caution then you have admitted guilt. You can't appeal what you have accepted.
To be honest I cannot believe the police were so harsh as to give you a caution. I would have thought that they would have issued a Penalty Notice for Disorder. Very harsh in my view.
There is nothing you can do other than to explain the circumstances of the caution. Hopefully the Board of Governors will understand your situation.
I think you are very unlucky, at least the union said that it shouldn't be a problem though.
Can you let us know what the decision by the board is because I know people in similar situations with sensitive jobs? Would be appreciated, but no worries if this is not possible.
You should have been told that if you accepted the caution then you have admitted guilt. You can't appeal what you have accepted.
To be honest I cannot believe the police were so harsh as to give you a caution. I would have thought that they would have issued a Penalty Notice for Disorder. Very harsh in my view.
There is nothing you can do other than to explain the circumstances of the caution. Hopefully the Board of Governors will understand your situation.
I think you are very unlucky, at least the union said that it shouldn't be a problem though.
Can you let us know what the decision by the board is because I know people in similar situations with sensitive jobs? Would be appreciated, but no worries if this is not possible.
Thanks All...I have now spoken with the Chair of Governors who in turn spoke with HR and Personnel services....they have reassured me that in this particular case there is no reason for concern - they were impressed that I came forward so quickly. No-one is saying that the chances of getting a new job will be unaffected...and to be honest I was expecting that....but to hear that not only do they see no reason to take any action but that they support me has been an incredible relief....I have no doubt that this will alwys be a source of embarrassment and may well hold me back...but it has helped me to understand what sort of malicious person this girl really is and that I'm much, much better off without her.
Honesty appears to be the best policy with your employers (whether I'll believe that after 20 rejections for another post I don't know though !!)
Honesty appears to be the best policy with your employers (whether I'll believe that after 20 rejections for another post I don't know though !!)
Hi Head teacher i dont think you should blame the girl for being afraid of you to the extent that she had to call the police to get rid of you. Seems to me that you still have not learned a lesson even though you have been arrested locked up and been cautioned. Stop blaming the girl and accept that your behaviour was out of order. The arrest will lay on file for life even if you appeal and have the caution removed. Best of look in controlling your emotions in the future.
quote
"I'm a Headteacher and following the end of a relationship I was slow on the uptake and texted/called/visited to persuade partner that we should try again...nothing violent...nothing malicious...just naive love frankly.....when I finally got the message I went one last time to see her and she called the polcie and had me arrested for Harrassment."
By your own statement you harrassed this person long after it was stated that the relationship was over.
Having feelings for someone who does not want you can be all consuming if left out of check . however being a stalker and harrassing someone when it has been made clear your contact is neither desired or wanted is completely out of order.
in your case even the police locked you up for a period of time. all in the effort to drive home who unreasonable your behaviour was.
the idea of the caution is a warning " wake up call " and you agreeing to it means you understand this and understand what you were doing was wrong.
with that in mind all i can say is look in the mirror and imagine how it would feel to be pushed to an extent to have to feel the only way out is to call the police. Then when you have done that ask yourself who was to blame.
"I'm a Headteacher and following the end of a relationship I was slow on the uptake and texted/called/visited to persuade partner that we should try again...nothing violent...nothing malicious...just naive love frankly.....when I finally got the message I went one last time to see her and she called the polcie and had me arrested for Harrassment."
By your own statement you harrassed this person long after it was stated that the relationship was over.
Having feelings for someone who does not want you can be all consuming if left out of check . however being a stalker and harrassing someone when it has been made clear your contact is neither desired or wanted is completely out of order.
in your case even the police locked you up for a period of time. all in the effort to drive home who unreasonable your behaviour was.
the idea of the caution is a warning " wake up call " and you agreeing to it means you understand this and understand what you were doing was wrong.
with that in mind all i can say is look in the mirror and imagine how it would feel to be pushed to an extent to have to feel the only way out is to call the police. Then when you have done that ask yourself who was to blame.
Again thanks all. Here I understand everyone's response and can't help reinforcing that context is everything...I can completely understand why people without all of the fcats here would think that I was well out of order and continue to be if I 'blame' the girl....and I would imagine there are people who have behaved in that way....I honestly don't believe that was the situation in our context and feel that this whole thing could easily have been dealt with at a lower level....and because the girl knew me she would know perfectly well after nearly 2 years of relationship that this would not have been necc....However, that wasn't what the issue that was posted...I wanted some help /advice and to an extent I've received that...thankyou...As suggested I have taken a good look at myself..I know that I am not the sort of person some of you clearly think I am...or have behaved like...I have been stupid and naive...but in a way my concern was that in now having this caution I have now got the label as someone like pfabc and sc think I am. I understand guys why you would write what you did, it reflects well of you that you are able to put a clear argument...and I certainly don't want to enter into a massive justification of my position...my message for anyone ever who finds themselves in a police station (and believe me I never, ever thought that I would ever be in such a position) is take the opportunity to speak to the solicitor)
sorry...having re-read what I put before I've realised even more clearly why some were thinking I wasn't taking responsibility or was being unfair....the girl isn't malicious...it was a malicious act....it wasn't desperation..I know that because I know all of the facts...I'm not delusional....and I know I have behaved irrationally at times...but I stress again this was a situation where the girl's adapted version of events was believed totally and utterly...I understand that...and to be frank if I hadn't been involved myself I would almost certainly be agreeing with SC and pabc...it has been a massive shock to be caught up in this and to see how the police dealt with it.....am I innocent of sending e-mails and trying to talk to her ? - no...i know that...did I affect this girl emotionally - no (I really do know this whatever you might be thinking) ....did I reflect in the cell ? Yes...will I contact that girl ever again....no....did the punishment fit the crime given the full context ?...no Will I have a much more sympathetic attitude when dealing with job applications from people with cautions ? Yes...because I have seen how someone can easily get caught up without any malice, nastiness that has an incredibly unfortunate outcome and the Police seemed to use the Caution as a warning/solution rather than considering the full implications and other alternatives.
Reading what others have said (and judged) it's obvious that some people really don't understand what happens in these cases.
When I found out my ex-wife had had an affair with a mate of mine whilst I was in Iraq, I challanged her about it. She admitted to the affair, and agreed dates coincided with the conception of my son shortly after my return.
However, she wouldn't answer the question "Is there a chance my son is not mine?"
At this point she hung up, and refused to answer the phone. She left me hanging, whilst I was hundreds of miles away, turned her home and mobile off and refused to speak to me about it. I tried calling all night as I needed to know. My whole world had just crumbled and I was scared my son may be someone elses.
The following day I drove to my parents, and there was greeted by a PC, who was there to arrest me for harrassment. The ex had phoned the police and reported me. I also received a cautiion, and was told off-the-record that i was screwed simply on the basis that i'm a bloke. In the eyes of the law her story is given more credability because she is female, and more assistsance is given to her as she is now a victim of 'domestic abuse'!
When I found out my ex-wife had had an affair with a mate of mine whilst I was in Iraq, I challanged her about it. She admitted to the affair, and agreed dates coincided with the conception of my son shortly after my return.
However, she wouldn't answer the question "Is there a chance my son is not mine?"
At this point she hung up, and refused to answer the phone. She left me hanging, whilst I was hundreds of miles away, turned her home and mobile off and refused to speak to me about it. I tried calling all night as I needed to know. My whole world had just crumbled and I was scared my son may be someone elses.
The following day I drove to my parents, and there was greeted by a PC, who was there to arrest me for harrassment. The ex had phoned the police and reported me. I also received a cautiion, and was told off-the-record that i was screwed simply on the basis that i'm a bloke. In the eyes of the law her story is given more credability because she is female, and more assistsance is given to her as she is now a victim of 'domestic abuse'!
dh001. I didn't say i disagreed with the caution. As the law goes it was completely by the books. By turning off her mobile my ex had indicated that she wanted no further contact. What I am saying is that the law in itself is skewed in favour of the woman in these sorts of instances. In the words of the copper who nicked me "If you'd been a girl and she'd been a bloke this would never have got this far". Again the custody Sgt also tried to get a warning and No Further Action on the case, however the Domestic Violence Unit wanted a result and I was cautioned as a result.
Bob, I do actually tend to agree with you and on the facts you have disclosed a formal verbal harassment warning would have been more appropriate and proportionate in this situation because it could be argued your conduct was, in the particular circumstances, reasonable.
It appears the PC and the custody Sgt gave consideration to whether your conduct was reasonable but the decison was made by the pen-pushing bureaucrats from the domestic violence unit who direct 'sanctioned' detections for the unit's pie-charts.
(Unfortunately the issuing of formal Cautions is often abused by the police for detection purposes).
I am also mindful that dealing with domestic issues can be awkward for the police.
It can be awkward for the police to balance the protection
(if you were assessed as low-risk by the police).
It appears the PC and the custody Sgt gave consideration to whether your conduct was reasonable but the decison was made by the pen-pushing bureaucrats from the domestic violence unit who direct 'sanctioned' detections for the unit's pie-charts.
(Unfortunately the issuing of formal Cautions is often abused by the police for detection purposes).
I am also mindful that dealing with domestic issues can be awkward for the police.
It can be awkward for the police to balance the protection
(if you were assessed as low-risk by the police).
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