Lessons will be Learned, why aren't they?

[emmie]

when yet another woman and her child is killed by her ex partner, after repeated pleas to the police for help. And out come the endless excuses, and the
lessons will be learned patter, but they never are. Same for abuse of vulnerable adults, children, the elderly. Very rarely are people called to account it seems, and it makes me angry when i hear some spokesperson spout those words, like a mantra.

[Gromit]

http://www.dailymail....lure-protect-him.html

If I or other ABers failed repeatedly to do their jobs properly they would likely be sacked. If it is senior people in the police force they are apparently immune. These cases are similar in the fact that one one is every sacked, demoted or even fined. As council tax payers we are paying for what is often very poor service, and there is seemingly nothing we can do about it.

[Gromit]

Amend as

< ...that no one is ever sacked, demoted or even fined. >

[emmie]

Gromit, i watched though not with shock, as i have witnessed it first hand, the secret filming of that dreadful care home for vulnerable adults, and we haven't heard a dicky bird since the story broke. You can bet your bottom dollar, those creatures doing the abusing will not apologise, nor take any kind of responsibilty, like the odious sharon shoesmith. She is about to get a massive payout for unfair dismissal. Where does the buck stop i wonder.

[Gromit]

Without wanting to defend Sharon Shoesmith, she has become a bit of a scapegoat.

Her department failed and she deserved to lose her job, but their were others in the police and medical professions who also failed Baby P who still have their jobs and faced no censure for not doing their jobs properly.

And she is getting compensation for unfair dismissal not because she didn't deserve to be sack, but because Ed Balls is useless and could not perform a simple task like dismissing someone without screwing up.

[Davethedog]

Its hard to say anything here without appearing unsympathetic however, how many similar calls do you think the police, particularly the police in certain areas, receive of a similar nature. I agree that policing needs to be looked at but they only have limited resources. Its very easy to be critical in hindsight, because its a wonderful thing, but how would you have dealt with it? and how would you have coped with front line policing.

As for Shoesmith, the point is that her department was directly responsible, if there had been an isolated incident, then I would agree with you Gromit however there were 60(?) incident and had been discussed x amount of times.

An far be it for me to defend Balls but ministers, as was Shoesmith, are only as good as the information given, the difference was Balls acted on his.

[Old_Geezer]

When it is a simple procedural technicality one would have hoped any compensation would be minimal. More of an indication that it wasn't quite right, than an offer of a financial windfall.

[Manwithnoname]

Yes Em It makes you wonder if they ever learn anything from past experinces, but in fairness nobody has foresight

[Gromit]

Davethedog

There were 60 times that Baby P was failed by the system, but they weren't all Social Services failings. Included in the 60 times are the police errors and the doctors errors. Which was my point, Shoesmith has been heaped with all the blame ( you just did it) when others who share the blame are still there.

[gina32]

but if the story is to be believed a million pound compo, how can that be justified??

[Davethedog]

Just read about the young mum in Basildon - I retract all I said, the Police should be sacked.

[murraymints]

In my own..... and very personal experience... the bizzies do not want to know when they consider it to be a domestic situation...... you have to end up in hospital badly injured ... then it is too late and nothing much happens anyway...it IS a man's world...

[Davethedog]

Gromit - The point I am making is the buck stopped with Shoesmith, it was her direct responsibility, the police would have thought that Social services should deal with a problem. If they point it out and no action is taken they must defere to them. I suspect the same with medical people they point it out call the social and if nothing happens they must think the social services dealt with it.

The police or NHS don't put children in to care the Social Services do, it may be that Shoesmith wasn't culpable but someone in her department was.

[anotheoldgit]

Gromit

/// If it is senior people in the police force they are apparently immune. These cases are similar in the fact that no one is every sacked, demoted or even fined.///

Wasn't Metropolitan Police Commissioner, Sir Ian Blair, sacked?

Also Scotland Yard commander, Ali Dizaei?

And it would appear that 160 police officers are sacked every year in secret disciplinary hearings.

http://www.dailymail....plinary-hearings.html

[anotheoldgit]

Completely agree with Davethedog, an excellent post.

[Gromit]

AOG

Sir Ian Blair was not sacked. He resigned after a campaign by Boris Johnson to remove him. His removal was not because of his woeful performance, but because Boris thought his appointment was political and too close to Labour.

Ali Dizael was not sacked for not doing his job properly, he was accused of corruption.

And I have some bad news for you...

http://www.guardian.c...ion-charges-dismissed

[Gromit]

AOG

Your Mail link is very shocking. Why on earth should Police Officers being removed from their job be kept secret from the public?

[anotheoldgit]

Gromit

Er, wasn't the reason for Sir Ian Blair's requested sacking by the London Assembly, something to do with a little matter of an innocent man being shot down in cold blood, plus Sir Ian's three and a half years in post were dogged by questions about his judgement, leadership credentials and politically correct style of policing.

He was also accused of racism by a series of ethnic minority officers, including the country's top Asian policeman Tarique Ghaffur

All of which in the end made him stand down, even after his dogmatic refusals to stand down?

But apparently he was the chum of Tony Blair, so the Labour Party supported him, and he was even made a peer of the realm, but that's Labour for you.

http://www.dailymail....ive-life-peerage.html

/// Ali Dizael was not sacked for not doing his job properly, he was accused of corruption. ///

Oh so 'corruption' isn't amongst one of the reasons for not doing the job properly then?

[Gromit]

AOG
Not sure whether you are agreeing with me or arguing with me. My point was that these people (Sir Ian Blair et al) get away with it. He was woeful and should have been sacked many times. In the end he was allowed to resign and was rewarded with a Peerage. No punishment for a job badly done.

// Boris Johnson, the new Conservative mayor of London, had made it clear that he wanted a fresh approach to policing. And when he took over as chairman of the Metropolitan Police Authority, the oversight body, he told the commissioner it was time for a change.
The commissioner didn't want to go and the mayor had no powers to remove Sir Ian. But it was one political battle that the policeman concluded he could not win. //

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3960881.stm

[emmie]

while you are discussing the matter of an incompetent policeman, Ian Blair, who had seemingly no support from his front line officers, another woman is dead, along with a little child, because she wasn't taken seriously, and for christ sake when will someone hold their hand up and accept responsibility. In hindsight someone says, they had enough effin warnings. As to Sharon Shoesmith is as responsible as the low lifes that killed that poor baby, on her watch, her dept, her responsibility at the end of the day, and the b***h is going to get a million pound payout, both situations are just disgraceful. And i read again the same phrase in my paper, empty words, empty gestures, and more people who literally get away with murder.