ChatterBank0 min ago
the poor lose out again
don't you love it when the tories say > in real terms <
does this mean they were only joking or lying terms last time
http://itn.co.uk/uk/2...out+in+NHS+reforms%27
god help the sick under the tory and liberals
does this mean they were only joking or lying terms last time
http://itn.co.uk/uk/2...out+in+NHS+reforms%27
god help the sick under the tory and liberals
Answers
Dr Filth....
08:12 Mon 01st Aug 2011
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I think it's fast approaching on of these Factor.....:o)
http://digitaldaily.a...2/double-facepalm.jpg
http://digitaldaily.a...2/double-facepalm.jpg
I do find this amusing, especially the debate about “in real terms”. Just consider this, Dr F, and it may help:
The government spends £1m on health. In the year following inflation runs at 10% and the government spends £1.05m on health. They could say “we’ve increased spending by 5%”. Happy? Well you shouldn’t be because to increase spend IN REAL TERMS by 5% they would have to spend £1.15m (actually £1.155m if you want to be pedantic).
So the term is not used “...to hoodwink the young and gullible to make it sound better than it is” it is a genuine term with a sound basis which strips out the effect of inflation to see what is happening “in real terms”.
Of course the problem is that all governments equate increased spending with increased output and better results. That is usually not the case. And as far as the original question goes, any transfer of resources from “poor” to “rich” areas of the country should be seen in contrast to the massive amount of resources the Labour government shifted from the “affluent” south to their mates in the North, Wales and Scotland.
The government spends £1m on health. In the year following inflation runs at 10% and the government spends £1.05m on health. They could say “we’ve increased spending by 5%”. Happy? Well you shouldn’t be because to increase spend IN REAL TERMS by 5% they would have to spend £1.15m (actually £1.155m if you want to be pedantic).
So the term is not used “...to hoodwink the young and gullible to make it sound better than it is” it is a genuine term with a sound basis which strips out the effect of inflation to see what is happening “in real terms”.
Of course the problem is that all governments equate increased spending with increased output and better results. That is usually not the case. And as far as the original question goes, any transfer of resources from “poor” to “rich” areas of the country should be seen in contrast to the massive amount of resources the Labour government shifted from the “affluent” south to their mates in the North, Wales and Scotland.
It all comes down to ideologies. The Tories may well appear like a wolf in sheeps clothing but given the opportunity would like us all to go private and the companies to make enormous profits. By trying to introduce efficiencys
they are really cutting back on staff which can only mean greater waiting times for diagnosis and treatment.
they are really cutting back on staff which can only mean greater waiting times for diagnosis and treatment.
There are many reasons why services are suffering despite more money being spent Dr F. Here’s a few:
Firstly, the cost of drugs and treatment is rising far higher than inflation (so is increasing, to use the phrase again, “in real terms”).
Secondly the previous government (Labour in case you’ve forgotten) introduced numerous “reforms” particularly in Primary Healthcare. Among other things this saw GPs’ salaries rise by almost 100% in some cases. Did this lead to your GP being twice as good, or dealing with twice as many patients? Thought not. My GP practice responded to these reforms (and the concomitant increase in income) by reducing its opening hours (four and a half days, no evenings, no Saturdays, closed one and a half hours for lunch – except on the day they don’t reopen, natch), no longer taking blood tests (one has to traipse to the local hospital), no out of hours service (locums employed) and closing its list to new patients.
Lastly, and probably most importantly, the NHS is having to deal with increasing numbers of patients because of the rising population.
So increased spending even “in real terms” does not necessarily lead to better outcomes.
I hold no brief for the previous or current government when it comes to the NHS. In my view the less involvement politicians have with it the more likely it is to prosper. I have indeed had recent dealings with the emergency side of the service and it was a shambles. The NHS does not need more cash. It needs better management without meddling politicians (of any persuasion) messing with things they know little about.
Firstly, the cost of drugs and treatment is rising far higher than inflation (so is increasing, to use the phrase again, “in real terms”).
Secondly the previous government (Labour in case you’ve forgotten) introduced numerous “reforms” particularly in Primary Healthcare. Among other things this saw GPs’ salaries rise by almost 100% in some cases. Did this lead to your GP being twice as good, or dealing with twice as many patients? Thought not. My GP practice responded to these reforms (and the concomitant increase in income) by reducing its opening hours (four and a half days, no evenings, no Saturdays, closed one and a half hours for lunch – except on the day they don’t reopen, natch), no longer taking blood tests (one has to traipse to the local hospital), no out of hours service (locums employed) and closing its list to new patients.
Lastly, and probably most importantly, the NHS is having to deal with increasing numbers of patients because of the rising population.
So increased spending even “in real terms” does not necessarily lead to better outcomes.
I hold no brief for the previous or current government when it comes to the NHS. In my view the less involvement politicians have with it the more likely it is to prosper. I have indeed had recent dealings with the emergency side of the service and it was a shambles. The NHS does not need more cash. It needs better management without meddling politicians (of any persuasion) messing with things they know little about.
in real terms the word real is getting used more
>>The north-south health divide is at its widest for 40 years, say researchers at Manchester University.
The researchers also say the recession will hit northern cities hardest – unless the government focuses its efforts on creating new jobs and wealth in the north west and north east.
Prof Iain Buchan from the University of Manchester said: "These findings point towards a severe, long-term and recently worsening structural health problem in the geography of England...which has been resistant to specific policies to reduce inequalities in health or regenerate local communities.
"Stimulating businesses and wealth creation is the key to tackling the divide, making real change goes beyond the scope of the NHS – we need to look at employment, housing and education. Currently, poor health means raising the retirement age to 68 is an unachievable target in the north – we do not have the healthy workforce to do that." <<
notice how he says >> real change goes beyond the scope of the NHS <<
just seen a report that says wales , scotland and northern ireland get more funding to the nhs than england, will try and find it again
in the real world most of the heavy industry was up north (see i am at it now)
so common sense tells you the workers up north would have more health problems and need more funding for hospitals and treatment
with more people having the health problems the waiting lists will hit those up north the hardest could this be why people up here did not fall for the tory lies
this reminds me of the sod you jack i am alright brigade, the me me me me culture that was started by you know who
>>The north-south health divide is at its widest for 40 years, say researchers at Manchester University.
The researchers also say the recession will hit northern cities hardest – unless the government focuses its efforts on creating new jobs and wealth in the north west and north east.
Prof Iain Buchan from the University of Manchester said: "These findings point towards a severe, long-term and recently worsening structural health problem in the geography of England...which has been resistant to specific policies to reduce inequalities in health or regenerate local communities.
"Stimulating businesses and wealth creation is the key to tackling the divide, making real change goes beyond the scope of the NHS – we need to look at employment, housing and education. Currently, poor health means raising the retirement age to 68 is an unachievable target in the north – we do not have the healthy workforce to do that." <<
notice how he says >> real change goes beyond the scope of the NHS <<
just seen a report that says wales , scotland and northern ireland get more funding to the nhs than england, will try and find it again
in the real world most of the heavy industry was up north (see i am at it now)
so common sense tells you the workers up north would have more health problems and need more funding for hospitals and treatment
with more people having the health problems the waiting lists will hit those up north the hardest could this be why people up here did not fall for the tory lies
this reminds me of the sod you jack i am alright brigade, the me me me me culture that was started by you know who
-- answer removed --
By the way, Dr F, my experience of the shambolic state of the NHS took place in one of the most "affluent" counties of southern England. And the shambles came about principally as a result of funding cuts perpetrated by the Labour administration two or three years ago. I'm not saying that cuts have not or will not be made 'Oop North, but the North does not have a monopoly on Health Service martyrdom.
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