This Is Not Consent!

[woofgang]

I am shocked and disgusted by this especially as a woman did it to another woman.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/thisisnotconsent-fury-after-teens-thong-13581282?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=mirror_main

[Deskdiary]

I'm am astonished that people appear to be saying a man accused of rape is not allowed to use everything in his armory to prove his innocence.

[Theland]

Deskdiary - HIS armoury? Really?
Is underwear now a factor?
Should young ladies have to be careful what they wear?

[gness]

And I'm astonished that you're willing to see a young girl humiliated more than she has been.

[bednobs]

im equally astonished that you think that the fact she wore a thong proves his innocence

[Barmaid]

I d9 not think she would have had to hold them up in court. They would have been part of the evidence as most complainants and accused's clothes would be. Not that that makes any difference. It is appalling to ask the jury to make assumptions based on what she is wearing. It goes back to the "She was asking for it" train of thought which cropped up in the 90s. I thought we had moved away from that.

I do not know how the judge summed up. I hope he made the point that she was not to be judged in her clothes.

Consent cases are always difficult tho. Normally one person's word against another.

[gness]

It seems so, Theland......Deskdiary would have it that, were I raped, my choice of underwear could be used to help prove the rapist innocent.

As I said before, that is a warped and strange attitude.

[-Talbot-]

Well, I don't have the ability to tell what underwear a woman is wearing without doing something either unlawful or downright pervy.

So taking that into consideration, how can her concealed underwear be evidence for the accused?



What next.


'I've had my house robbed'
''Well you asked for it because the burglar saw a laptop, hi-fi and flat screen TV in your house when he looked through the window''



'I've been mugged'
''Well, you were in possession of a wallet containing money''

[gness]

BM...in the link Toorak posted they young girl there was made to hold up her underwear......or at least that is what the report tells us...x

[jno]

no mention that the judge (also a woman) said any evidence should be disregarded. As far as I can see he just denied everything and they believed him.

https://tinyurl.com/yb5624xv

[Deskdiary]

Gness - you are wilfully missing the point.

The point is why shouldn't the accused use all the ammunition available to him, BY LAW, to rebut accusations?

You would. I would. Everybody would.

You, and others, can't see beyond the fact that it is a pair of knickers.

You should never be on a jury.

[-Talbot-]

If you were in charge of the system DD, would you allow the type of underwear a woman was wearing to be used as evidence?

Do you think it is right or wrong?

[gness]

Excellent question, Talbot...x

[kvalidir]

Look at it another way Deskdiary... what possible relevance could her knickers have to whether she had been raped or not? It's the fact that evidence like that should not be brought up never mind admissible that is the problem not even so much that his defence team attempted to use it.
Unless she knew the accused and they had an online chat that mentioned her knickers and something secual she wanted him to do to her involving them, this should not even have cropped up. How do rapists know what sort of knickers a woman has on until they choose to rape? Have I got a thong on now or some granny pants, or perhaps i'm commando? do you know? No you don't, and you wouldn't unless you forced me to have sex with you or I had sex with you of my own accord- either way the knickers have no bearing other than to try to paint the victim as some sort of scarlet woman.

[Deskdiary]

If the knickers were germane to the case, then absolutely yes.

If the knickers were not germane, then absolutely no.

They were allowed as evidence, so I'm happy to accept that they were germane.

Are you?

[-Talbot-]

You are avoiding a straight question, DD.

[-Talbot-]

In what circumstances can the 'type' of knickers a woman wears be germane?

[Deskdiary]

Is this the question Talbot?

"If you were in charge of the system DD, would you allow the type of underwear a woman was wearing to be used as evidence?

Do you think it is right or wrong?"

I'd refer you to mine of 21.36 which does answer the question, but for the avoidance of any doubt....

If the knickers are germane to the case, then they are fair game. If they are not germane, then it is not fair game.

The judge felt they were germane - he or she knows better than you or me, so......end of story.

[Barmaid]

I think this is a similar issue to a complainants previous sexual history which can only be introduced in certain circumstances.

I'm still not sure how relevant someones underwear is tho. Imo someone can dress as provocatively as she likes or she may intend to have sex and then change her mind but no still means no.

[-Talbot-]

I can't see how Bridget Jones knickers or a thong can possibly be relevant.

I'm not sure why and how you think (you won't make a case for it) it can be relevant.

[Deskdiary]

Whether they're relevant or not is not for you or me to decide - it's for the judge to decide.

The judge has decided they are relevant.