Ongoing Worship Of The Nhs

[dave50]

I notice there was a TV program on the BBC last night going on about 'our wonderful NHS'. Yes the front line staff do a brilliant job but when is the constant gushing and worshipping going to stop? It's getting embarrassing, it started with the ridiculous opening ceremony at the London Olympics that showed hospital nurses and beds. Anyone would think no other country in the world had health care. Try raising any constructive criticism if you dare and you are denounced as a heritic. Defenders of the current system always point to the USA as the only other option, what about France or German's system, they seem to do just fine?

[CrapAtCryptics]

I have no problem in recognising their work, quite a few died and others had to isolate from their own families while being at constant risk of contracting this potentially fatal disease. They fully deserve our plaudits.

[dannyk13]

Don't if it is still the case but when I was in Germany the system was that that you paid 25% of medical costs and the government paid the rest.

[jno]

when they're all dead of Covid, and the Yanks have bought it up. The French and Germans aren't bidding for it.

[dannyk13]

jno, Nobody is bidding for it.

[woofgang]

The people are like people everywhere, mostly good, some outstanding, some diabolical. The system wants a good objective overhaul.

[dannyk13]

//The system wants a good objective overhaul.//
Especially the top echelon.

[woofgang]

I am talking about the actual system.

[Boto]

We hear about abuse, mistakes etc in hospitals. My localish hospital had to close a ward because of the abuse to the patients. Who abused them - not Joe Bloggs off the street but these ‘wonderful’ NHS workers. Most of the staff are just doing a job, some good, some bad. When you are ill you are vulnerable and someone who is kind and helpful to you can seem fantastic.

[dannyk13]

Woofie, Are not the top echelon part of the system?

[Ric.ror]

Would I be right in thinking that 52% of the NHS budget is spent on admin?

[Peter Pedant]

// jno, Nobody is bidding for it.//
i love the acid put downs on AB
complete crap of course ( not that is not a put down that is a rational commen t)

if it were true it wouldnt have been a sticking point on one of the treaties/agreements- specifically with the land of the free when Trump started throwing his weight around about it.

along with I will make everyone buy airbuses

situation different now post covid
( or for the land of the free - whilst-covid)

[Peter Pedant]

// Best estimates suggest that the NHS spends roughly £8 billion of its £100 billion budget on management and administration. //

no ric ror you wouldnt

8%

about twice or four times what it was in the seventies ( 2%)
the NHS was incredibly cheap to run as there was nt the insurance on costs of people filling out insurance forms and paying premiums and then filling out more forms when they went to a doctor

take it as a spinal reflex - then there was no afferent arm ( cost mil ) and only the efferent arm ( motor ) - incredibly cheap

someone said - sozza - I used to write prize winning essays on this very subject. and then they introduced the internal market. I got this badly wrong - no prizes - when I said a complete waste of money, and of no use at all.
c;est la vie - the fact I was right was irrelevant

[Peter Pedant]

who is paying for all the covid tmtm in the US?
the land of the not-free ?
the pt is innit?

so what do they do if they are indigent - cant pay not american indian ( indigenous )

[Samuraisan]

And Spain's

[woofgang]

Boto, I was asked to come out of retirement to be part of the cleanup operation of a local hospital whose abuse scandal never made it to the tabloids (hell no!) When staff were originally sacked and suspended, the local MP made a huge local fuss about everything being kept confidential and those poor accused staff not getting a fair hearing. Then he got to see some of the reporting and suddenly decided that those poor accused staff were entitled to their privacy. And no it wasn't Gosport whose troubles have made it to the meejer.

[AuntPollyGrey]

Before Covid people constantly criticised the NHS. It has been on its knees for years. Too many people are using the NHS for things it was not intended for: Weight loss surgery and IVF should never be funded by the NHS. As for all this sycophantic praising of the NHS professionals, well they are just doing their jobs: You don't join the Army then expect to be given a round of applause every time you go into battle do you?

[KARL]

dave50, I salute you for your courage. You are of course absolutely correct but what depresses me deeply is that there are so few like you and that is a big part of the problem. There is no serious drive toward improvement, just romantic/sycophantic cooing. Admiring NHS staff for becoming ill and dying while doing their job is a sweet and sour contradiction like celebrating the Charge of the Light Brigade for riding full gallop into certain death, they were hopelessly out-gunned. The staff prevented total catastrophe but the NHS failed (people died needlessly in their thousands). It is a spectacular form of folly which when turned into being seen as glorious conduct, passionate poetry and all, looks also distinctly perverse due to the inevitable doom.

The NHS is at somewhere between 20 and 25 in the world rankings when all things are considered, accessibility, results, cost, etc. The waiting lists, poor results, etc. are the outcome of something other/more than the efforts of nursing and other staff, the system as a whole is mediocre. Infant and maternal mortality, cure rates, life expectancy, blunders/scandals, etc. in the UK are worse than the best elsewhere. To be accepted for free into the system is little consolation when the treatment is likely to be flawed or fatal at worst - I certainly would rather be able to trust completely that my medical treatment will be as good as anywhere else, and pay toward it if that is what it takes. The NHS could be World's Best but it isn't, well short of it (the final margin to reach the very top is proportionately the hardest to produce).

You can expect howls of anger to be directed at you and being plastered with "Anti-British" labels for speaking the truth.

[Samuraisan]

Well said AuntPolly

[jno]

dannyk, it will be in the trade talks

"Donald Trump will put the interests of corporate America first and demand that the NHS pays higher prices for US drugs in a free-trade deal with the UK"

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/31/trump-will-put-us-interests-first-in-trade-talks-says-kim-darroch-ambassador

The Yanks have already told Britain to drop Huawei, and we've said "Yes, sir". Wonderful thing, sovereignty.

[woofgang]

Jno I think Hong Kong was the tipping point there