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Locking Down Of Care Homes, Is That What The Residents Want?
There has been talk of this happening again. Has anyone ever asked any of the residents of these care homes if they want to be isolated from their close family and friends? Perhaps some may want to take the risk so they have the chance for a hug from their children and grand children, especially if they know they may not have long left even without the virus. The way some have been forcibly isolated is heart breaking. It's a symptom of the health and safety culture we have now, where length of life always trumps quality of life no matter what the cost.
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So I'll try once again: The virus will spread. It will spread whatever action the government or anybody else takes. When I read about measures being taken for "your safety" or "to keep you safe" I chuckle. No shop, pub, restaurant, organisation or government can keep people "safe" from an infectious disease running at pandemic levels unless they isolate...
12:21 Fri 11th Sep 2020
Burleyshirley. My mother's home went into lockdown. The three door codes to access her room were changed so nobody could get past the main door unannounced.
In that situation how would you have gained entry to your mother's room?
If another person did what you say you'd do and brought the virus to the home and your mother died the truly horrible death that my mother did how would you feel?
In that situation how would you have gained entry to your mother's room?
If another person did what you say you'd do and brought the virus to the home and your mother died the truly horrible death that my mother did how would you feel?
//No government will allow what you want..//
I don't particularly want it and I'm certainly not hung up on it. I don't really care one way or another (I am not in a care home and nobody I know is). But strangely one of the biggest causes of spread at the beginning was because the government decreed that older people had to be turfed out of hospitals (to "free up bed space for Covid victims) into their care homes with no regard for whether they were infected or not.
The situation is considerably different now. Whether Peter accepts it or not, very, very few people are currently dying from Covid. Despite the new infection rate increasing considerably (although it is still very low) the death rate is little changed and is running at an average of about 12 per day. The question that really needs to be addressed (and nobody has been asked) is just how long will such a situation go on? There is no doubt at all that the virus will continue to spread and very little doubt that it cannot be contained. Meanwhile the collateral damage that is being inflicted is now beginning to overtake, by a country mile, the damage caused by Covid. Among the care home population there are almost certainly many residents who are suffering from other conditions which are not being treated "because of Covid." So now, many lives are being jeopardised in order to (possibly) protect a very few who may succombe to a specific disease. The situation is ludicrous.
I don't particularly want it and I'm certainly not hung up on it. I don't really care one way or another (I am not in a care home and nobody I know is). But strangely one of the biggest causes of spread at the beginning was because the government decreed that older people had to be turfed out of hospitals (to "free up bed space for Covid victims) into their care homes with no regard for whether they were infected or not.
The situation is considerably different now. Whether Peter accepts it or not, very, very few people are currently dying from Covid. Despite the new infection rate increasing considerably (although it is still very low) the death rate is little changed and is running at an average of about 12 per day. The question that really needs to be addressed (and nobody has been asked) is just how long will such a situation go on? There is no doubt at all that the virus will continue to spread and very little doubt that it cannot be contained. Meanwhile the collateral damage that is being inflicted is now beginning to overtake, by a country mile, the damage caused by Covid. Among the care home population there are almost certainly many residents who are suffering from other conditions which are not being treated "because of Covid." So now, many lives are being jeopardised in order to (possibly) protect a very few who may succombe to a specific disease. The situation is ludicrous.
>The question that really needs to be addressed (and nobody has been asked) is just how long will such a situation go on?
It'll go on a lot longer and be far more severe if we don't take decisive action where we need to. Did you hear what Chris Whitty said about Belgium v France and Spain. The deaths are rising worryingly in Spain. This time we want to learn from others- their recent mistakes (Spain) and their recent positive measures (Belgium)
It'll go on a lot longer and be far more severe if we don't take decisive action where we need to. Did you hear what Chris Whitty said about Belgium v France and Spain. The deaths are rising worryingly in Spain. This time we want to learn from others- their recent mistakes (Spain) and their recent positive measures (Belgium)
The virus is assumed to be passed on by touching and breathing on people . No-one seems to think about how it could be passed on by our clothes and shoes. I remember when I worked in the NHS we were never allowed to wear our uniforms outside of the hospital.We had to change at work. The reason being that virus' could be carried on them. This rule went on until probably the 90s. The covid virus could possibly be transmitted by the care staff and visitors from clothing. No-one really knows.
andres. I used to work in the community in the NHS. We did the annual infection control training...it was in the days where the scarey one was MRSA....same message, wash your hands, wash your damn hands, use gel do it PROPERLY. keep in mind that in the community, you go from house to house all day and some of them were indescribable...and yet local test and tracing research showed that community staff who went from house to house in the same uniform and would also do things like taking people shopping and so on; and also rehab care staff who actually did personal care as part of rehab, albeit in gloves and aprons....carried less infection than in patient staff who were not allowed to wear their uniforms outside the hospital.....and I am not talking about actually passing the infection around, I am talking about finding the infection on clothing and in nose and skinfolds. Yes I know that MRSA is not a virus.
//It'll go on a lot longer and be far more severe if we don't take decisive action where we need to.//
On the contrary. All that the “decisive action” has done so far is to elongate the outbreak. Because, as I keep saying, the virus will spread, regardless of what is done, the decisive action that has been taken so far has simply slowed the spread down for a while only to see it begin again. And so it will continue. All the measures are doing is causing further economic, social and non-Covid health damage.
//The deaths are rising worryingly in Spain.//
Are they? It depends how easily you are worried I suppose.
On the contrary. All that the “decisive action” has done so far is to elongate the outbreak. Because, as I keep saying, the virus will spread, regardless of what is done, the decisive action that has been taken so far has simply slowed the spread down for a while only to see it begin again. And so it will continue. All the measures are doing is causing further economic, social and non-Covid health damage.
//The deaths are rising worryingly in Spain.//
Are they? It depends how easily you are worried I suppose.
From where I'm standing, FF is the one displaying "..ignorance or deliberate misunderstanding." But then I suppose it depends on whether you're a 'Covidiot' or a 'Covphobic'.
I would be classed as the former by the latter, but that's because I have the ability to assess risk (it's actually a large part of what I do for a living), whereas some people aren't able to do so.
The 'risk', no matter how the spin is spun, is small. It just is.
A week ago I returned from a very pleasant four nights in Majorca with some mates; we were muzzled at both airports there and back, we drove a hire car to our villa, and the only time we ventured out was to replenish the beer in the fridge and for an evening meal. Majorca had a very low rate of infection.
The 'Covphobics' will be horrified to hear I have completely ignored the quarantine requirement - there's more cases where I live than there was in Majorca - and I'm going about my normal business and I haven't managed to kill anybody yet!
The risk is negligible.
I would be classed as the former by the latter, but that's because I have the ability to assess risk (it's actually a large part of what I do for a living), whereas some people aren't able to do so.
The 'risk', no matter how the spin is spun, is small. It just is.
A week ago I returned from a very pleasant four nights in Majorca with some mates; we were muzzled at both airports there and back, we drove a hire car to our villa, and the only time we ventured out was to replenish the beer in the fridge and for an evening meal. Majorca had a very low rate of infection.
The 'Covphobics' will be horrified to hear I have completely ignored the quarantine requirement - there's more cases where I live than there was in Majorca - and I'm going about my normal business and I haven't managed to kill anybody yet!
The risk is negligible.
//I'm bored by your ignorance or deliberate misunderstanding.//
Sorry to hear that. Help me combat my ignorance, then (and I'll keep it simple): You suggested that without taking "the decisive action we need to", the pandemic will go on for longer. Explain to me, then, how any of the current and proposed measures (which are, I assume, part of the decisive action you refer to) will see the pandemic in the UK end more quickly.
I have mentioned the Swedish approach a number of times in the past. I accept that Sweden and the UK are different in a number of ways; but I also believe there are a number of similarities. In particular Sweden made terrible mistakes early on which saw large numbers of infections and deaths among care home residents - as did the UK. However, there the similarities in strategy end. Sweden had no lockdown, no school closures, no business closures. It has a similar death rate (%age of the population) to the UK and its economy suffered less than half the damage that the UK's has (so far). This government's strategy is aimed at throttling the virus. It won't work. The latest increase in infections has spooked them and they believe that increase, which is predominantly among the young, will lead to deaths among the elderly. This didn't happen in Sweden. Sweden's infection rate remained quite high in the early summer (when ours began to decline) but the daily number of deaths has remained in low single figures since the end of July despite their infection rate (%age of population) remaining about as high as ours is now following the latest "frightening" increase.
Dismissing my arguments with "whatever" does not make for a very constructive debate. I'm pleased to see that a number of MPs from both sides of the House have begun to wonder whether the strategy of trying to strangle the virus by means of damaging lockdown type measures is really the way to go. Hopefully they will be given the opportunity to debate the issue and will have a chance to spend some time discussing the government's strategy. Parliament spent untold time debating Brexit. By contrast, these measures, which represent the most severe restrictions on civil liberties in peacetime and which will cause far more damage than the worst form of Brexit ever will, have not been debated at all. Urgent debate is necessary because all the government's current strategy will do is further cripple the economy, further destroy many businesses, further damage social cohesion and further cause many non-Covid health problems to go unaddressed. And the virus will still spread
Sorry to hear that. Help me combat my ignorance, then (and I'll keep it simple): You suggested that without taking "the decisive action we need to", the pandemic will go on for longer. Explain to me, then, how any of the current and proposed measures (which are, I assume, part of the decisive action you refer to) will see the pandemic in the UK end more quickly.
I have mentioned the Swedish approach a number of times in the past. I accept that Sweden and the UK are different in a number of ways; but I also believe there are a number of similarities. In particular Sweden made terrible mistakes early on which saw large numbers of infections and deaths among care home residents - as did the UK. However, there the similarities in strategy end. Sweden had no lockdown, no school closures, no business closures. It has a similar death rate (%age of the population) to the UK and its economy suffered less than half the damage that the UK's has (so far). This government's strategy is aimed at throttling the virus. It won't work. The latest increase in infections has spooked them and they believe that increase, which is predominantly among the young, will lead to deaths among the elderly. This didn't happen in Sweden. Sweden's infection rate remained quite high in the early summer (when ours began to decline) but the daily number of deaths has remained in low single figures since the end of July despite their infection rate (%age of population) remaining about as high as ours is now following the latest "frightening" increase.
Dismissing my arguments with "whatever" does not make for a very constructive debate. I'm pleased to see that a number of MPs from both sides of the House have begun to wonder whether the strategy of trying to strangle the virus by means of damaging lockdown type measures is really the way to go. Hopefully they will be given the opportunity to debate the issue and will have a chance to spend some time discussing the government's strategy. Parliament spent untold time debating Brexit. By contrast, these measures, which represent the most severe restrictions on civil liberties in peacetime and which will cause far more damage than the worst form of Brexit ever will, have not been debated at all. Urgent debate is necessary because all the government's current strategy will do is further cripple the economy, further destroy many businesses, further damage social cohesion and further cause many non-Covid health problems to go unaddressed. And the virus will still spread
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