Ageing population and pension crisis

[dave50]

Following the recent news stories regarding shortage of care for the elderly and also the looming pension crisis, I think there are two reasons for these problems. Firstly, this fixation we have that everyone must live longer, no matter what. Just becasue medical science is progressing to make this possible, doesnt neccessarlly make it a good thing that we can be kept alive for years but with absolutely no quality of life. Secondly, the fragmentation of the family. At one time the family would take the elderly relatives in to live with them if they couldnt care for themselves. We are too selfish to do that now, we would rather shove them in a care home and forget about them, that is as long as we have managed to screw our inheritance out of them beforehand, otherwise they can fester at home on their own, anything but spend it on care.

[jackthehat]

Does Jesus often ring telling you that he has a vacancy for a sun-beam ?......

[craft1948]

I don't think it's all down to 'selfishness' as family dynamics have changed over the years. Nowadays, to survive, it is the norm for wives to work therefore who is to look after the ageing parent? My maternal grandparents were looked after by one of their married daughters, who'd never had a job since she got married.

[mightywease]

So what do you suggest, that people are euthanised when they reach 70 or that children should be made to look after their parents? Even if their parents may not wish to be looked after by them?

And what about people with no children or dependents. Kill them at 65?

[Old_Geezer]

I think the pension thing is overstated. We don't have full (100%) employment anyway, those who find jobs create the wealth for all in the country to live on, so having the young take over responsibility while the older folk who have done there bit become the unemployed is no more of a problem that were everyone young and the out of work lot on welfare rather than pension.

The main problem is the blinkered view that separates funds for pensions from funds for other welfare and then insists those who have already contributed are obliged to keep on doing so.

Re your points. I'm unsure we wants to go down the Logan's Run route you seem to be suggesting when you point out that because we can help folk to live longer, we need not do so. For me that would be reneging on a moral responsibility to help our fellows.

As for family fragmentation, well in the past maybe some families were fated to have to perform lots of care whilst other families were not. Nowadays we have a fairer system where we all pay taxes into the kitty and thus share the cost of care. Why should folk have to rely on other family members and maybe be neglected whilst another is luckier to have a family that tries ?

[carmalee]

LOL Jackthehat :-))))))

[sandyRoe]

Is there much point going on after 50? A couple of bottles of nice wine and a few suitable tablets would spare us all the aches and pains of decrepitude.

[pa___ul3]

how old is too old to have any quality of life?
I'll admit I want putting down when I start becoming a burden but you can't put an age on that! I'm pretty sure my 88 year old grandad is fitter than most of the folk on here!

[ubasses]

I think the real world is a little different to your perception of it. My mother is in a Care Home, beacuase we were told by the medical profession that the care she needs is 24/7 and way beyond what I could provide or care in the home could provide. I spend a long time choosing the right place, it costs £2875 per month, I also persuaded her to move close to me, as most of her friends were older than her she probably would not have had many visitors. I visit her and take her out two mornings week. She has not been 'put away to be forgotten'. I am glad that she had a property to sell so that she could afford the best place I could find and they are excellent. Even if I had wanted to screw my inheritence out of her beforehand I can assure you the authorites would have made me pay it back. They can go back years to check that no assets have been disposed of. I was advised 20 years if necessary. What did annoy me when researching Homes is that some who take residents being placed by Social Services charge private residents extra to subsidise those who did nothing to protect their own future, and are being paid for by me anyway through the tax I have paid for the last 40 years.

[pretty_snowdrop]

Who is to judge what is classed as a good quality of life?
Don't be too quick to assume that all elderly folk are shipped off to nursing homes. I know a few people who have parents/inlaws living with them and when the time comes my parents will come to live with me.

[ummmm]

I have just got back from taking my nan (in a home for dementia) to see my grandad (on a trial run in a care home because his needs are so high) so far this week he's had someone from the family with him everyday...the weekends covered as well. He's far from shoved into a care home and forgotten.

As for inheritance - he's paying for both his care, and my nans care, which is costing app £1,200 per week...I think the only person concerned about inheritance is my grandad.

Unless you assess these elderly people individually then you will remain clueless...!!!

[anneasquith]

our family structure has indeed changed, how many parents are in care homes who, if a member of the family did not work full time would be able to stay at home , either in their own home or a relatives home ?

[DEN53]

On your second point Dave, 'at one time the family would take elderly relatives to live with them' - this may have been true years ago, but now more families have to work full time to pay bills etc, so that would leave nobody at home to look after elderly relatives. I am assuming Dave you have experience of this, because believe me its not easy to put someone you love in a Care Home.

My Mum has dementia, my Dad coped for nearly a year with Mum at home with me giving him backup support. The support care that was supposed to have helped him keep Mum at home, was non existent, so as he was cracking under the strain, I had to make that heartbreaking decision to look into permanent residential Care. It was nothing to do with being selfish, I can assure you. I have cried a thousand tears, Dave and still do everyday, thinking did I do the right thing for my Mum.

As for inheritance, when my Dad passes away his home will go to the Local Authority to pay for Mum's keep in the Care Home.

I am assuming Dave, you have no experience of this, but if you have, then my apologies, but until you walk in my shoes or anybody else that has made this decision, its not good to generalise.

Den xx

[jackthehat]

Elderly people are able to live far longer, thanks to improvements in medicine, with conditions which would have carried them off far earlier.

It is often just not practicable to have a very elderly, infirm person living an a house, *any* house..........

[Chaffinch]

My mum, is coming down to visit for a week tomorrow, she catches the train from Stafford to Winchester, taking in several changes on route. She can only stay for a week, as she is then visiting a friend in Plymouth. This year she has been to Dubai, and Austrailia on her own!

The thing is she's 86 and lives on her own should I "put her out of her misery" when she gerts here?

[China Doll]

Both my father and mother have expressed wishes that they do NOT want their children to be their carers should the need arise. I would not want my children to do it either. Being as my father is a carer for the elderly and my mother is a berevment counsellor, I imagine I will be respecting both of their wishes since they might have an iota of a clue what they're talking about.

And if I ever have kids, I wouldn't want them to be my carer either.

So you forgot 'personal choice' under yout list of reasons of why people might prefer to have professional carers or go in to a home.

[Chaffinch]

*gets*

[piggynose]

it depends on the individual, as not all the same.
my dad at the age of 62 ish started to switch off, got lazier and lazier, it didnt seem that long ago, when he enjoyed long walks, and meeting friends to play cards.
Then one day he just stopped living, preferring to stay in all the time it seemed watching the box, so when he got tothe age of 76 he was taken to a care home in bexhill , miles from his adopted home " Brum." . to be nearer his daughter, my sister. he died 3 years later, i think he stopped living completely the day he arrived in that care home.

[emmie]

have you taken a straw poll of elderly folk who would like to live with their nearest and dearest. I can assure you that my mother could no more live with her children than fly in the air. As to the fact that many elderly are independent free thinking, do it all, and to hell with the ageing process seems to have bypassed you. Many are in care home not because families don't care, but because many adult children live a long way from their parents, have full time jobs, coupled with their own children. What about those who's partner has passed away, and they have no children
And if you have ever tried to look after an elderly person 24/7 as i have, and also someone who was terminally ill, then you would know how tough it is. Advances in medicine are making people live longer, and many do still have a reasonable quality of life, some do not. And those people should be looked after by carers who are trained, capable and caring, sad to say i have seen too many cases of where that has not happened. There is no quick fix or answer to this problem.