Need advice

[Headless Rat]

ok, here's the scenario, I need your advice on what to do.
Last week I gave it straight, to my friend, about how she acts with blokes and how, although they walk all over her, it's her fault because she invites them to.That was the gist of it. There was more to it because I got fairly irate about it as, a lot of the time, she's with guys who she knows have girlfriends. Not only that, but she gloats about the fact that she "got" the guy even though his gf is amazing looking. She really takes pleasure in the fact that she upsets other people. I know it's low self-esteem etc and apart from blokes, she's a lovely lovely girl. Anyway, I really told her what I think of her. She's very very dramatic as it is so she took it completely the wrong way, as if I was just being nasty for the sake of it, without taking any good out of my advice to her. I said a lot of lovely things to her too, so it wasn't all harsh. Anyway, she never wants to speak to me again, even after I told her that I only said such things to her because I care about her and hate seeing her getting hurt all the time. (she cries her eyes out every time a bloke lets her down). I'm not all that keen on getting back in touch with her after her saying she she never wants to hear from me again, but I don't want to lose her as a friend, especially over something which was, admittedly hard to hear, but which was said with only the best of intentions. What do you think I should do? Do you think I was wrong in the first place to tell her she should respect herself more and think a lot more of herself and expect a lot more instead of letting blokes treat her like rubbish? (which, incidentally she'd tell you herself) All advice welcome! Thanks.

[redcrx]

i think you may have done the right thing

take a step back now and let her sit and think about the reason for you saying those things.

[bednobs]

oh dear. you gave her anasked for, unwanted advice about her personal relationships and her self esteem and you wonder why she was so upset? You basically told her what is wrong with her life, even though she didn't ask you to and gav her the lowdown on what you think of her choice of men and lifestyle. But that's ok, you did it with the best of intentions!
I think you should be grovelling to her, rather that saying your not keen to get in touch with her - after all havent YOU just walked all over her feelings, the way you accuse her b/f's of doing?

[Headless Rat]

Yea, Bednobs, I did. I'm not going to deny that what she heard was not easy to hear from anyone.However, I've read and re-read the mail I sent her and I would do the exact same thing again if I had to. I know it's hard to hear criticism of yourself, but sometimes it's cruel to be kind. I wouldn't be a friend if I sat back, let her cry on my shoulder and then told her "yea, those guys a b*******, it's their fault, not yours". Thing is, is she took my advice, took the good points from what I said to her, she'd be much happier. Plus, she should think it's right to be with other people's bfs and get on her high horse when someone stands up to her about it and tells he ri's wrong to upset other people like that.

[redcrx]

you did it in an email?? oh no. She would have skipped over any nice bits and only seen the comments about where she was going wrong. She wont have been able to ask questions, to stick up for herself or communicate to you how you were making her feel.

[bednobs]

actually, i take my first answer back, she can probably do with out friends like you! I just imagine your frind (as you've painted her) as a person with very little confidence, low self esteem who lets people walk all over her. Cue a "friend" emailing (!) her to tell her where she is going wrong in life, pointing out her faults and getting "irate" with her. No wonder she has crawled away to hide somewhere, and dosen't want your friendship.
There is a fairly thick line between being honest, (when someone asks you to, for example if the are crying on your shoulder saying "is he a ******"?) and just barging in telling people where you think they are going wrong, and how YOU think they should live their lives (apparently according to YOUR morals), and most people who are truley friends would know what side of that line to stay on wouldn't they? How to be kind WITHOUT being cruel (not the other way round). Or how to keep their mouths shut, unless asked for their opinions.
How would you like it if for example, your friend wrote you an irate email saying you had appalling taste in men, your dress sense was awful and your hair looked crap every day. Would you think "hmm, she's just being cruel to be kind, this has made me feel so much better, and i'm going to get a new hairstyle right away"

[Headless Rat]

That's where you have to use your intelligence to decided whether something actually matters or not. Hairstyle or make up or whatever affects noone else but the person who's wearing it. Cheating with guys and sleeping around does affect other people. And, just to even things up, she enforces her opinions on me every time she brings someone home or tells us how she's delighted she got one over the guy's gf.

Yea, maybe an email wans't the best way to put it but if she's focussing only on the fact that it was in an email, then she's obviously missed the whole point.

She even said in a text subsequently, how i "really made her question herself". Em, yea, that was the point my dear!

[redcrx]

i think that you should just apologise (if you are sorry) and walk away.

dont be surprised if she doesnt get back in touch though.

[bednobs]

do you not see the irony here - you expect her to see things from your point of view and change because of it. And here i am offering YOU a different point of view and you are doing what she is presumably doing (I.E. ignoring it, justifying your own points to yourself, not examining your own motives etc)
None of us like changing (in fact, why should we?) or like having it pointed out to us we are wrong (like you did to her and i'm doing to you). However, this is just my opinion feel free to igore it (just as she is doing for your opinion) I know i would find it hard to find a way back from the scenario you have described

[Headless Rat]

Redcrx, what do I apologise for? Seriously? Coz, I'm not sorry for what I said, I said a lot of nice things about her, I hate seeing her destroying her life- which she is doing- and the thing is, she's a smart girl herself, she knows that what she's doing is worng and that she deserves a lot more. She's said so many times that she deserves a great guy and all that.
Do you think I should just say "hey, sorry about that mail, I didn't mean it to sound so harsh, I didn't mean any of what I said in it an dI just want to be friends again"? or should I say something else?

[pips1]

Am I missing the point here? Why should you apologise for stating your opinion, when she tells you all that she does whether you like it or not? I can't stand people who delight in taking other people's mates/partners. I know there are some who would argue that if a relationship was solid it couldn't be broken, and I agree, but it is still wrong to deliberately try and split someone up imo. She deserves to be hurt if this is what she is doing.

[Headless Rat]

Pips, that's exactly what I think. And I didn't mean it to be horrible what I said to her, but yea, she does take delight in other's misfortunes. Like, she'd be delighted if one of our friend's boyfriend's cheated on her?? Just because our friend is really pretty and the girl I'm talking about is jealous of her.
And you're so right about her telling me about her goings-on without my asking to hear about it.
Do you have any advice on what I should do though? Coz I don't want to lose touch with her completely

[pips1]

Although I can see your point, it is difficult to give advice. The reason I know what you are saying is because it has happened to me too. I work for someone similar and all I hear about is her life with other men, be they young, old, stupid or someone else's! I could scream!! Anyone with half a brain can see they are using her or laughing at her but she is desperate. I have to be careful though as she employs me.

If it was a friend I would just have to say something, as you have. Just give her time to cool down but if you do have contact again just say that it was your opinion of the situation and you just felt you had to say something. Tell her that you want to stay friends but prefer it if she doesn't involve you in what she is up to. The other reason I know what I am talking about is that I had my relationship broken up - by a friend!!

[sazzie]

I think if she was as good as mate as you think she would be greatful that your caring for her and looking out for her. At the end of the day you were just trying to protect her. I've been in the same situation before, only i left it a bit too late to tell her a few home truths, i waited until she left me up on a mountain 1.00am in the morning and went off with a guy!

[Headless Rat]

Ooooh, that's nasty alright. See, this is what I hate though.....other people being upset by someone else's selfishness. That's why I said what I said to her. Not to be cruel and walk all over her, but to tell her "look, whoa, you're acting inappropriately and noone thinks it's funny. In fact, you're really hurting people here and you're going to end up alone and miserable if you continue to let these men use you".

[pips1]

Exactly - and it isn't even getting her anywhere. She is being used by these men and for what - a cheap thrill? She won't find a loving, lasting relationship this way. She needed telling. The girl who did it to me and left me alone with two children was soon on to her next victim leaving my life in tatters. I know my husband didn't have to go and he's to blame as well, but I'd been ill on and off and suppose wasn't much fun but she was younger and chased him for months.

[Headless Rat]

Oh my God, that's awful. That's the thing, like it's one thing doing it someone with no strings attached, but to do it to someone with 2 kids is just as low as you can go. I don't want her to turn into someone like that, a tart, who just throws herself at anyone. Well, to be fair , she does do that already. Which is what I told her. I'd say you'd find it hard to trust women after those two wonderful experiences you just gave. Ye poor thing though. It's just not called for.

[pips1]

I'm not saying she would ever be as bad as that, but it all starts somewhere. As you say, she is already doing it and who's to say it won't become a habit with her? I know my example was extreme but there are some girls who just love the chase, then either lose interest or go all out to get the guy for good. I have to log off soon but hope it all resolves itself with you and your friend.

You sound a nice caring person to me and I wish you'd been around to tell the person who did wrong to me back then. I do actually have some really good female friends who helped me through it all, you just have to trust or you lose everything.

[obNOXious]

I can full appreciate that you meant only well, however bedknobs is right, giving unasked for advice to anyone is a dangerous things to do, especially when some of it is exceptionally critical and involves people changing their moral perspective and that person has low self esteem. Realistically this was never going to end happily, she wasbound to be terribly upset. I think red is right, if you are truly sorry you have upset her then apologise, if not then leave it and accept that good friend though you may indeed be to her,she is entitled to live her life by her own code of morals and needs no-one's permission to do otherwise.

[joko]

i understand you stand by what you have said - but perhaps it is the WAY you have said it that is the problem...

you have obviously said things in a way that has upset her...she may come round she may not..its hard to say ...

perhaps you should post the email here...?.

then we can tell you - from a neutral perspective how we would react to what you have said...?

you dont sound very tactful or good with kind words - if you get my meaning...an your post could well have just come across as a snidey little bitch at her....i dont know...

[pips1]

Hi, just wondered if you and your friend had resolved things between you, now that the dust has settled. I hope so.