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Is Progress A Myth?
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'Meliorism'; the belief that the moral and material condition of humanity will improve over time, is this viewpoint in consideration of the events of the 20 and 21st centuries looking a bit dodgy?
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I know what the eventual effect would be, I consider excess use of Cesarean ops in some places in recent times would have negligible change on the population as a whole at this point. That this minor arguably detrimental effect could be removed by future advances in gene manipulation and changes to what society considers acceptable.
Material progress I equate to wealth creation by society over time and suggest that it is self evident that is true. Moral progress is more valuable to debate. After all, who is the authority to decide which set of moral rules is better than another ?
Material progress I equate to wealth creation by society over time and suggest that it is self evident that is true. Moral progress is more valuable to debate. After all, who is the authority to decide which set of moral rules is better than another ?
OG; //Material progress I equate to wealth creation by society over time and suggest that it is self evident that is true.//
But what of the sources of this wealth creation and its sustainability? In his forward to 'False Dawn' the philosopher John Gay notes; 'in a world of fiat money - currencies that are not tied to any physical asset as they were in the era of the gold standard- there is no limit to the amount that can be created. Today the spiralling abstractions of finance bestow unprecedented practical power on derivatives, hedges and swaps, on credit worthiness and confidence ratings' - that is to say on signs and symbols.
How long can this continue, what also are the implications of simply printing more and more money?
But what of the sources of this wealth creation and its sustainability? In his forward to 'False Dawn' the philosopher John Gay notes; 'in a world of fiat money - currencies that are not tied to any physical asset as they were in the era of the gold standard- there is no limit to the amount that can be created. Today the spiralling abstractions of finance bestow unprecedented practical power on derivatives, hedges and swaps, on credit worthiness and confidence ratings' - that is to say on signs and symbols.
How long can this continue, what also are the implications of simply printing more and more money?
"But what of the sources of this wealth creation and its sustainability?"
No time for other than quick responses at the moment but :
Mineral wealth (which is finite on the planet) can eventually be increased from mining asteroids and the like. Humans simply need to add value to the basic material. The sun provides energy to allow the planet to recover/replenish, just as long as there are not too many people needing to use resource and dump waste for the planet to cope with. I suspect that covers most issues.
For sure building an economy on faith is a risk and I'd like to see changes, but doing so allows great advances in living standards just as long as one can avoid folk losing faith. This is not something it is easy to persuade folk to give up when they experience the benefits and dread the alternative. Ultimately it is what folk do for each other that truly matters, the virtual cash, for want of a better phrase, is merely the accounting system, the keeping track of the effective IOUs. As long as no one (much) reneges, all should be well. but it is hardly an ideal system, but one that seems to work save for the occasional hiccup such as incompetent bankers selling bad, so called investments, in property where money has been lent to folk who have little chance of paying it back, but claiming that enough will. "Financial Issues" is a subject on its own though.
No time for other than quick responses at the moment but :
Mineral wealth (which is finite on the planet) can eventually be increased from mining asteroids and the like. Humans simply need to add value to the basic material. The sun provides energy to allow the planet to recover/replenish, just as long as there are not too many people needing to use resource and dump waste for the planet to cope with. I suspect that covers most issues.
For sure building an economy on faith is a risk and I'd like to see changes, but doing so allows great advances in living standards just as long as one can avoid folk losing faith. This is not something it is easy to persuade folk to give up when they experience the benefits and dread the alternative. Ultimately it is what folk do for each other that truly matters, the virtual cash, for want of a better phrase, is merely the accounting system, the keeping track of the effective IOUs. As long as no one (much) reneges, all should be well. but it is hardly an ideal system, but one that seems to work save for the occasional hiccup such as incompetent bankers selling bad, so called investments, in property where money has been lent to folk who have little chance of paying it back, but claiming that enough will. "Financial Issues" is a subject on its own though.
Hypo; //Go on, do something freaky and we'll see if it gets into the papers.//
As a professional artist, there are those who think I do nothing but freaky things, - and it gets in the papers too :0)
OG. I too have run out of time today, I will respond, but before I go I'm giving you full marks for optimism :0)
As a professional artist, there are those who think I do nothing but freaky things, - and it gets in the papers too :0)
OG. I too have run out of time today, I will respond, but before I go I'm giving you full marks for optimism :0)
@Khandro
"As a professional artist, there are those who think I do nothing but freaky things, - and it gets in the papers too :0) "
Returning to my point, which you neatly evaded; based on this premise that reality is illusory, can you produce an artwork using just your mind?
I've modified my request in an attempt to segue, neatly, from your reply. Previously, I asked if you can modify our *shared* "reality" just by the power of your will. Can you?
This is a philosophical riddle, I think.
"As a professional artist, there are those who think I do nothing but freaky things, - and it gets in the papers too :0) "
Returning to my point, which you neatly evaded; based on this premise that reality is illusory, can you produce an artwork using just your mind?
I've modified my request in an attempt to segue, neatly, from your reply. Previously, I asked if you can modify our *shared* "reality" just by the power of your will. Can you?
This is a philosophical riddle, I think.
That is a very deep subject! are you sitting comfortably? I'll tell you a story;
If I told you that I have made a portrait head of Angela Merkel, an extremely life-like depiction, I have cast it into bronze I have made the surface perfectly smooth and have had it chromium plated so that it shines beautifully (do you see it in you 'mind's-eye'?) Then I told you that last week I took it into a remote spot in the forest, where I carefully removed an area of earth surface and dug a hole 6 feet deep, placed the shining portrait head into the bottom of the hole, buried it, and restored the surface so nobody could find it. Only I know where it is, but you know now of its existence and have a image of it in your mind, though you could never see it for real, because only I know where it is.
But what if I'm lying to you, what if I never did any such thing! yet you have that image of that sculpture in your mind, is it any less real? and most of all; does it matter if I'm lying or not?
If I told you that I have made a portrait head of Angela Merkel, an extremely life-like depiction, I have cast it into bronze I have made the surface perfectly smooth and have had it chromium plated so that it shines beautifully (do you see it in you 'mind's-eye'?) Then I told you that last week I took it into a remote spot in the forest, where I carefully removed an area of earth surface and dug a hole 6 feet deep, placed the shining portrait head into the bottom of the hole, buried it, and restored the surface so nobody could find it. Only I know where it is, but you know now of its existence and have a image of it in your mind, though you could never see it for real, because only I know where it is.
But what if I'm lying to you, what if I never did any such thing! yet you have that image of that sculpture in your mind, is it any less real? and most of all; does it matter if I'm lying or not?
v_e; No, but I know what it is - should I? He's a apparently a "bloody verbal contortionist". It would have to wait, I'm trying a little excursion into fiction as it happens, but first 'The Fencing Master' and then I'm determined, before I rack my cue, to read 'Jude the Obscure'
Wither the OP, wherezitgon? :0)
Wither the OP, wherezitgon? :0)
Jude the Obscure, Khandro? I'd advise against it - it will do nothing to lighten your spirits.
Anyone remember the BBC2 serialisation with the lovely Robert Powell and the toothsome Fiona Walker?
I mentioned Wilt because in the book a drunken Wilt buries a blow-up doll under concrete on a building site. This, coinciding with the sudden disappearance of his wife, leads to our hero's being suspected of murder. Your last post had put the fantasy headline "Merkel murdered by mad sculptor" in my mind.
I can't be the only low-life who pops into R&S occasionally: any other Tom Sharpe fans out there? Second and third books I gave to my second wife when we first met (first was Paul Gallico's "The Silent Miaow") were Indecent Exposure and Riotous Assembly.
Anyone remember the BBC2 serialisation with the lovely Robert Powell and the toothsome Fiona Walker?
I mentioned Wilt because in the book a drunken Wilt buries a blow-up doll under concrete on a building site. This, coinciding with the sudden disappearance of his wife, leads to our hero's being suspected of murder. Your last post had put the fantasy headline "Merkel murdered by mad sculptor" in my mind.
I can't be the only low-life who pops into R&S occasionally: any other Tom Sharpe fans out there? Second and third books I gave to my second wife when we first met (first was Paul Gallico's "The Silent Miaow") were Indecent Exposure and Riotous Assembly.
@Khandro
well, as far as buried works of art go, that's 'nul pwang' for originality:
http://
even the bit about lying doesn't merit a point. Pirate treasure maps turning into a joke on the all the twerps with shovels. ;)
Joshing aside, you still had to convert your idea into keystrokes, causing pixels to be arranged on our device screens, such that we could read your words. You have had to externalise your thought processes in order for us to experience your art.
The assertion that reality is illusory remains unproven. Make your sculpture appear out of thin air in front of a CCTV camera anywhere in the world. We will know it was you. (or one out of however many hundreds of people have read this thread).
well, as far as buried works of art go, that's 'nul pwang' for originality:
http://
even the bit about lying doesn't merit a point. Pirate treasure maps turning into a joke on the all the twerps with shovels. ;)
Joshing aside, you still had to convert your idea into keystrokes, causing pixels to be arranged on our device screens, such that we could read your words. You have had to externalise your thought processes in order for us to experience your art.
The assertion that reality is illusory remains unproven. Make your sculpture appear out of thin air in front of a CCTV camera anywhere in the world. We will know it was you. (or one out of however many hundreds of people have read this thread).
hypo; //'nul pwang' for originality// Originality isn't necessarily something I relentlessly seek, 'originality' in any human endeavour is not per se always a step forward, - chemical weapons were an original idea, but it has not advanced humanity very far, also there is in this post-modernist age, the theory (proposed by for one, Terry Eagleton) that we are living in a world in which everything is a "re-cycled, translated, parodied or derivative version of something else".
Having said that, the image of my creation, of a pristine, exact replication of Angela Merkel's head in chromium plated bronze, buried 6 feet in the earth in a forest clearing at a location known only to me, has been transferred from my mind to yours, and there it is, and really there's nothing you can do about it :0)
Also, when I buried it (or did I?) I didn't find another one there in that same spot, though of course you might argue that just a few inches away there might be another exact replica placed there by someone else unknown to me.
You challenge my assertion that 'reality is illusory', then tell me please; is my sculpture real?
Having said that, the image of my creation, of a pristine, exact replication of Angela Merkel's head in chromium plated bronze, buried 6 feet in the earth in a forest clearing at a location known only to me, has been transferred from my mind to yours, and there it is, and really there's nothing you can do about it :0)
Also, when I buried it (or did I?) I didn't find another one there in that same spot, though of course you might argue that just a few inches away there might be another exact replica placed there by someone else unknown to me.
You challenge my assertion that 'reality is illusory', then tell me please; is my sculpture real?
Hypo; That book is yet another literary omission (see above) but I know it by lots of quotes and it sounds good.
I sometimes wish, if it wasn't too painful, I would break a leg and be forced to sit and read all the books I've neglected, - along with the DVD I bought two years ago, and haven't yet opened; Fritz Lang's 5 hour silent epic, 'Die Nibelungun- Siegfried and Kriemhild's Revenge'. :0)
I sometimes wish, if it wasn't too painful, I would break a leg and be forced to sit and read all the books I've neglected, - along with the DVD I bought two years ago, and haven't yet opened; Fritz Lang's 5 hour silent epic, 'Die Nibelungun- Siegfried and Kriemhild's Revenge'. :0)
@Khandro
I have not read the book myself, I only know of its existence. At the time, I saw the whole gold rabbit thing as being an extreme exercise in product marketing. Lots of people bpught the book, thinking they would be the one clever enough to work put the clues and find the rabbit before anyone else.
Selling a product on the basis of the hubris of the buyers *is* a stroke of genius, you have to admit.
So, whether the book is actually any good and whether you are missing an unmissable, classic novel, I am not placed to comment. Chances are, it paid off his mortgage, in which case it matters not that it was a 'flash in the pan': a lot of art is just that (it pays this year's bills and allows next year's release to be worked on at leisure).
But the public expects - and happily pays - for originality because boredom is the scourge of civilised life. So I was crestfallen to see you, as an artist, say this:
//Originality isn't necessarily something I relentlessly seek//
Note: there is no shortage of people making a very good living by recycling old stuff and selling it to the impressionable youngsters of the day (which is why I won't watch X-factor/Britain's Got Talent.
I have not read the book myself, I only know of its existence. At the time, I saw the whole gold rabbit thing as being an extreme exercise in product marketing. Lots of people bpught the book, thinking they would be the one clever enough to work put the clues and find the rabbit before anyone else.
Selling a product on the basis of the hubris of the buyers *is* a stroke of genius, you have to admit.
So, whether the book is actually any good and whether you are missing an unmissable, classic novel, I am not placed to comment. Chances are, it paid off his mortgage, in which case it matters not that it was a 'flash in the pan': a lot of art is just that (it pays this year's bills and allows next year's release to be worked on at leisure).
But the public expects - and happily pays - for originality because boredom is the scourge of civilised life. So I was crestfallen to see you, as an artist, say this:
//Originality isn't necessarily something I relentlessly seek//
Note: there is no shortage of people making a very good living by recycling old stuff and selling it to the impressionable youngsters of the day (which is why I won't watch X-factor/Britain's Got Talent.
