Question regarding the basis of Christianity

[Whickerman]

Regarding Virgin Birth - let's assume that the bible is truth and the virgin birth occurred per the gospel (even if, like me, you think it's fable.)

Mary is made pregnant by God.
If it was not with her consent, then that's rape and God has committed an unspeakably awful crime.
If it was with her consent, then she's a fornicator (possibly classed as adultery if she was due to marry Joeph)...?

Just a thought from a bored mind...

[classylady60]

I would have to agree with you if there was a god....<smile>

[sandyRoe]

On Judgement Day he'll ask you: 'What was it you called me?'
Wouldn't want to be in your shoes then.

[wildwood]

There are also repeated instances of incest, and mass murders by His Nibs in the bibble (sp).

On judgement day I would ask him why he killed all those young innocent babies from religious god fearing people who've never done anything wrong.

[Cowtipper]

"There are also repeated instances of incest" I've heard of this. Of course the two near apes that formed mankind were probably brother and sister and fornicated with other apes to form the human race. That's comforting.

[chris1957au]

Yum love goat, great roasted with garlic rosemary salt and black pepper very tempting.

[woofgang]

apparently its a translation error, the original word used meant "young woman" not "virgin"
http://www.harrington-sites.com/terms.htm

[wildwood]

cowtipper.... this is where religion falls down. Evolution is a gradual thing where a species dissipates and gradually changes into sub-species and eventually into other species, this happens over thousands of generations, not one or two.

[chakka35]

woofgang, you're confusing two separate things. The alleged "prediction" in Isaiah, as you rightly say, talks of a young woman not a virgin and it has nothing to do with the later Jesus story anyway.

That Mary was a virgin is claimed only by two quite unknown people (later given the names Luke and Matthew). They were writing nearly a century after the supposed event and supply no evidence for a claim that the two previous writers (Paul and the author of "Mark") had never mentioned. How on earth can "Luke" and "Matthew" have known anything about Mary's condition at that remove? Yes,it's all a fairytale, but I wonder why even believers don't ask themselves these questions.

[Khandro]

None of this has any real bearing on the fundamental teachings of J.C. does it ?

[mike11111]

Purely from a Gospel perspective, the Virgin birth is given credence as when the Angel Gabriel announces to her that she is to become the mother of a child she asks, "How can this be, seeing I have no husband?"
She later consents, "Behold the handmaid of The Lord. Be it unto me according to thy will." Both quotes from St Luke.

St Matthew says, " Now when Joseph discovered that she was with child he was minded to put her away privily," suggesting that he was not responsible for the pregnancy.

[ixion]

erm.....didn't Jesus have older siblings?

[mike11111]

There is debate as to whether the use of the word "brothers" in that context refers to cognate siblings, extended family members or friends.

[beso]

Khandro: None of this has any real bearing on the fundamental teachings of J.C. does it ?

It does because the weight of JC's teaching is supposed to be due to His special status as the son of God. From an objective POV His attitudes were not unquestionable.

Personally I think anyone who believes they are the son of God is a weirdo.

[mike11111]

The word "brother" is used in a wide range of contexts, ranging from monastic orders and evangelical churches through to Freemasonry and trade unions.

[chakka35]

Yes, Mike11111, but, as I said, these things are related by unknown people years after the event. What point are you trying to make?

Jesus' siblings are plainly referred to as brothers and sisters without any qualification or reservation. Attempts, particularly by the RC church, to call them cousins or earlier offspring of Joseph are pretty pathetic. They are trying to give some basis to what is purely church doctrine.

[Old_Geezer]

It wouldn't be rape if there was no forced penetration.
Besides what has earthly laws got to do with restricting Gods?

[Cowtipper]

wildwood//
"cowtipper.... this is where religion falls down. Evolution is a gradual thing where a species dissipates and gradually changes into sub-species and eventually into other species, this happens over thousands of generations, not one or two. "

That's not necessarily the case. Natural selection takes advantages of random mutations during times of environmental stress. Sexual selection takes place in every generation. If we line breed horses or dogs we can see how quickly some traits are easily changed. How many successful attempts at line breeding apes would form one that has a larger cerebral cortex, nearly no fur, and a rotated pelvis? 300,000 years to create a subspecies is a miniscule amount of time in the scheme of evolution. When you take into consideration the Toba catastrophe theory and the reduction of the world population we're all extremely related.