"now Is Not The Time"

[anotheoldgit]

/// The SNP leader said Mrs May's veto was 'completely outrageous' and would prompt a surge in support for independence that would be seen by history as the beginning of the end of the Union. ///

Well better to wait then Nicola, isn't that what you want?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4323068/May-sealed-fate-UK-Sturgeon-warns.html

[youngmafbog]

You would have thought so wouldnt you, however it makes sense to wait until Brexit is in and settled, that way the Scottish can vote with knowledge rather than Project Fear 3 driving it. One can only assume the wee lass is afraid Brexit will be an outstanding success and therefore the sensible Scottish voters would want to remain part of the Union and not give the 'right' vote.

It makes no difference really, Scotland is out of the EU either way (And would have been if they voted out last time) so why not see how the land lies and make a call on it then.

[andy-hughes]

Ms. Sturgeon seems to be seeing her vision of an independent Scotland as a thriving economically viable nation - and it is not.

Scotland does not possess the economic basis for independence, and that has to be the ruling factor, not the need for independence which will be far more idealistic that realistic.

[emmie]

let us leave the matter until after Brexit, that should be Mrs May's mantra, or is already perhaps.

[jno]

anyone who claims "now is not the time" should be ignored. Now is never the time for anything.

[youngmafbog]

So when I get a slap round the face from Mrs YMB tonight I can quote you jno ?

[murraymints]

100% with Andy x

[Kromovaracun]

I don't think she's wrong. I would not be at all surprised if they end up voting to have a technically-illegal referendum and end up triggering a constitutional crisis as a result.

[youngmafbog]

It's not an illegal referendum, it just carries no legal weight.

[New Judge]

Yes, some people (including some politicians) described the EU referendum as “nothing more than a glorified opinion poll”. We have seen that it was no such thing.

However, this is somewhat different. Constitutional matters concerning the United Kingdom is not in the Scottish Parliament’s remit. They are reserved for Westminster. There is nothing to stop the Scottish “government” organising a referendum on the matter but, without the Westminster Parliament’s approval it truly would be a glorified opinion poll. The UK Parliament has the wellbeing of the entire UK to consider. The coming two years will be difficult which will see considerable amounts of Minsters’ and Civil Servants’ time being consumed with Brexit. A Scottish referendum will clearly impinge upon those resources. Mrs May is wise to refuse to accede to this diversion.

Ms Sturgeon makes great play of the fact that Brexit may have changed Scottish public opinion. She may be right, who knows? But she should remember that in 2014, when the first vote was held, the UK government had already promised a referendum on EU membership. She should also bear in mind that 40% of Scots voted to remain in the EU. Those Scots concerned that they would be taken out of the EU “against their will” (of which there was always a chance) should have voted for independence then. But insufficient numbers of them did. Quite how it would have altered the situation for the Scots anyway is a little unclear. Even if they had achieved independence by now, they would not be EU members. They would have lost their EU membership as part of the UK when they broke away and there is absolutely no chance of them being accepted as an independent nation in the short term and I would say it is unlikely in the medium to long term either.

Ms Sturgeon is described as a “canny” politician. Let’s see: she is quite prepared to see Scotland quit the UK, pledging instead a relationship with the EU which is all but certain to be based on a false promise. But as a result she will see Scotland quit the single market that is the UK, where far and away the greatest share of their trade is undertaken. So canny is not the word I’d use.

The ridiculous devolution nonsense put in place by the Blair government was always going to lead to situations such as this. The SNP will never be satisfied with the powers that the Scottish Parliament has (which are far in excess of any other group in the UK). Mrs May is quite right to refuse to countenance a second referendum. But what I will say is that if one is held in the future and the vote is to remain in the UK, measures should be taken to reverse the devolution process so that 8% of the UK population do not have the potential to disrupt what happens to the other 92%.

[ToraToraTora]

I think the PM is bang on, lets wait until we are out then the Scots will know they are voting to leave both the UK and the EU, anything else is the wee un trying to con the Scottish public, who, up to now have seen through her personal crusade.

[hereIam]

I will pmsl if they do have another referendum and it's the same result !

[ladybirder]

Listening to NS, one would think Mrs May had said No when all she has said is Not Now.

[THECORBYLOON]

NJ, you said, " Ms Sturgeon makes great play of the fact that Brexit may have changed Scottish public opinion. She may be right, who knows? But she should remember that in 2014, when the first vote was held, the UK government had already promised a referendum on EU membership."

In 2013 the Tories pledged to have an EU referendum if they won the next General Election. That election was in 2015 and the date of the EU referendum was not announced until February 2016.

The EU referendum was conditional upon the Tories forming the next government so it was not a certainty there would be one when Scots voted in 2014.

[New Judge]

Fair point, Corby. Thanks for putting me straight.

With so many imponderables perhaps the Scots would have done better to elect Labour MPs to Westminster instead of the SNP. Then there would have been considerably less chance of a referendum!