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Scottish Independence
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I’ve had many Scottish friends and shared interests over the years like a big family and would be sorry to see it change. Would we need passports to visit each other? Presumably the idea is independence from the UK or does it also mean independence from the EU? I can only hope politicians know what they are doing. Perhaps there are issues not apparent to ordinary mortals like me. What do other ABers feel about it?
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It's been on Sky News this morning and the plan is that there will be no borders between us so you won't need a passport.
I don't really have much of an opinion about them leaving to be honest, it won't affect me but I know a few scots that will be very disappointed if they get a yes and I know a couple that really want it. Not everyone's going to be pleased that's for sure.
I don't really have much of an opinion about them leaving to be honest, it won't affect me but I know a few scots that will be very disappointed if they get a yes and I know a couple that really want it. Not everyone's going to be pleased that's for sure.
It seems that many people on both sides of the border fear all manner of disastrous consequences following Scottish independence if it comes about. This perception is being fanned by those opposed to independence because it is the easiest way to put people off - least effort required to isolate people in ignorance. There is absolutely no particular reason to think travel between the two resulting countries will be any more difficult than elsewhere in Europe. However, the UK is notably different in that while elsewhere in Europe passports are not needed, they are going in and out of the UK - this is a UK decision. Against that we know that Ireland separated from the UK through a lot of violence, yet the border between the UK and Ireland is open with no passports required. If the UK were to join others in the Schengen agreement then Ireland would also do so - and Scotland if it does not immediately do so. If Scotland joins Schengen before the UK does then, yes, passports would be required, but that scenario seems unlikely and, like Ireland, Scotland would in this respect be trapped within UK policy. As for friendships, I have friends who disagree with my view on the issue but I do not hold that against them nor (I hope) do they hold my opinion against me. The stated policy of the SNP is that independent Scotland will/would be in the EU. However, politics in the new Scotland would decide this and the SNP might not remain in power, although continued membership of the EU seems most likely.
let us hope that Alex Salmond has thought it all through, it's not scare mongering it is however one where he and his fellow Independents should not get to pick and choose what is on offer, but a clean break agreement, it's own total governance, it's own tax system, NI system, own armed forces, and so forth, and it will not necessarily get the use of the pound, so that could mean having to join the EU and adopting the euro, as to the schengen agreement, that has been reneged on hasn't it by some countries, it's this ridiculous idea of totally open borders that has got countries into a tangle, if we had to have travel documents to and from Scotland, so be it, where by the way do people go for documents if they are mixed birth, part Scottish, part English, or part Scottish/Welsh/Irish, going to be fun finding out the answer from Messrs Salmond and. co
better safe than sorry,
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I don't think there is any danger of the Independence notion becoming a reality.
You have to remember that politicians love to creat history - it's an ego thing - they want people to talk about them after they've gone.
In the twelth century, you'd have financed a cathedral, now, you sanction things like The Milenium Dome and HS2, and invasions of Iraq, and Independence For Scotland.
Fortunately, where possible, the population is more level-headed and will not allow this level of self-agrandaisment to go forward.
From my experience, the Scottish people are not stupid, and they know that the historial links of hundreds of years have survived with good reason, and no good reason has been provided to change that state of affairs.
You have to remember that politicians love to creat history - it's an ego thing - they want people to talk about them after they've gone.
In the twelth century, you'd have financed a cathedral, now, you sanction things like The Milenium Dome and HS2, and invasions of Iraq, and Independence For Scotland.
Fortunately, where possible, the population is more level-headed and will not allow this level of self-agrandaisment to go forward.
From my experience, the Scottish people are not stupid, and they know that the historial links of hundreds of years have survived with good reason, and no good reason has been provided to change that state of affairs.
AH, we know that it won't just be Scottish people voting, but those who live and work in Scotland, those on the electoral roll, so non Scots go get a voice. Personally i don't want the split, but if it had to come it better be the real deal, no half baked wishy washy nonsense, as i said be prepared for a total split.
This is pretty unlikely to happen based on all the opinion polls but if it did there would be a period afer the vote where a lot of things would need to be worked out.
Passports though would not be required though- you don't need one for Ireland - you don't even need photo ID that's just for the airlines.
EU membership would probably be waved through very trivially, UN recognition in a similar way.
More tricky would be negotiations over splitting up assets and debts - as with any divorce money is always a factor!
You'd also have the rather interesting situation where you'd have a Tory Government in England for a generation - if you take away the Scottish vote from Westminster you've got a very dominant Tory House of Commons.
But it's pretty hypothetical - we're less than a year from the vote and not one opinion poll is anywhere near 50:50.
I rather Assume most Scottish Nationalists are privately expecting failure but are hoping for a big enough 'Yes' vote to use as amunition to press for further powers.
Passports though would not be required though- you don't need one for Ireland - you don't even need photo ID that's just for the airlines.
EU membership would probably be waved through very trivially, UN recognition in a similar way.
More tricky would be negotiations over splitting up assets and debts - as with any divorce money is always a factor!
You'd also have the rather interesting situation where you'd have a Tory Government in England for a generation - if you take away the Scottish vote from Westminster you've got a very dominant Tory House of Commons.
But it's pretty hypothetical - we're less than a year from the vote and not one opinion poll is anywhere near 50:50.
I rather Assume most Scottish Nationalists are privately expecting failure but are hoping for a big enough 'Yes' vote to use as amunition to press for further powers.
There is a requirement for people (anyone) entering the UK to present a passport and when leaving the UK and arriving at a Schengen country's border there is again a requirement to show a passport. UK citizens need a passport whereas in both above directions, citizens of Schengen countries need either a passport or a national identity card - the UK is again unusual in that no national ID card exists. Crossing borders within Schengen Europe does not require any passports and there are no border posts. I am not aware of any serious call for the Schengen agreement to be revoked. In many/most Schengen countries there is a legal requirement for any individual to be able to present an identity document (i.e. be able to prove who they are) if asked for it by the relevant authorities and this has been the case for decades - Europeans see nothing wrong with that but for UK citizens a passport is the only legal ID document but there is no requirement to possess one; I have only once been asked for one over there and that was at a police roadblock at night (I assumed there had been an incident).
Those who support independence for Scotland intend it to be a complete but orderly break. They accept that leaving the UK would mean Scotland will have to look after its own affairs - in fact, that is precisely the point. While they acknowledge that part of the UK's past achievements were the result of the input of/by Scotland, they are not sentimental about history to the point of wanting to face backward and trying to drag out something that may now actually hold Scotland back. Within the UK Scotland will do no better or worse than the UK as a whole and the UK does not score well in table after table, anything from friendliness to longevity, gender equality to prosperity. Countries scoring well are mostly of a size similar or smaller than Scotland. Those who support independence want also to let go of what for far too long has been a reason for moaning within Scotland: That on the whole the English have looked down on Scots and far too many still do. There is every likelihood that relations between the two will improve with independence, as previous examples of separation have shown. I don't think England will feel so snubbed that it will be spiteful.
There were/are people who were sorry to see the demise of stream trains, etc., everything has its time and the UK is in lots of ways clapped out and in need of a rebirth.
The opinion polls indicate an overall rejection of independence. I know of people who find this hard to believe, that Scots will be the exception and choose indefinitely to be governed by others (they will never decide the Westminster Government). Others insist they are the same people, UKers, and live in the glow of the past but have no other serious reason apart from fear of change (which weighs the heaviest).
Those who support independence for Scotland intend it to be a complete but orderly break. They accept that leaving the UK would mean Scotland will have to look after its own affairs - in fact, that is precisely the point. While they acknowledge that part of the UK's past achievements were the result of the input of/by Scotland, they are not sentimental about history to the point of wanting to face backward and trying to drag out something that may now actually hold Scotland back. Within the UK Scotland will do no better or worse than the UK as a whole and the UK does not score well in table after table, anything from friendliness to longevity, gender equality to prosperity. Countries scoring well are mostly of a size similar or smaller than Scotland. Those who support independence want also to let go of what for far too long has been a reason for moaning within Scotland: That on the whole the English have looked down on Scots and far too many still do. There is every likelihood that relations between the two will improve with independence, as previous examples of separation have shown. I don't think England will feel so snubbed that it will be spiteful.
There were/are people who were sorry to see the demise of stream trains, etc., everything has its time and the UK is in lots of ways clapped out and in need of a rebirth.
The opinion polls indicate an overall rejection of independence. I know of people who find this hard to believe, that Scots will be the exception and choose indefinitely to be governed by others (they will never decide the Westminster Government). Others insist they are the same people, UKers, and live in the glow of the past but have no other serious reason apart from fear of change (which weighs the heaviest).
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