ChatterBank2 mins ago
What Made Britain Great?
24 Answers
I watched the BBC series 'Genius of Invention' recently and it got me thinking of how Britain came to rule the seas, how we started and dominated the industrial revolution, and how we came to create the largest Empire the world had ever seen. Everything just seemed to fall into place...
~ Centuries of British innovation and invention; spearheading industry allowing Britain to manufacture on a scale unimaginable at the time.
~ Successful Military and Navy campaigns; leading to domination of the waters off our coast and seas further afield.
~ Scientific approach to global exploration; discovery of trade winds and invention of maratime clocks.
~ Vast financial and mineral resources; a rich treasury and plentiful supply of metal ore's and coal.
What would you choose as its defining moment in the evolution of Her empire? And why?
Infinity
~ Centuries of British innovation and invention; spearheading industry allowing Britain to manufacture on a scale unimaginable at the time.
~ Successful Military and Navy campaigns; leading to domination of the waters off our coast and seas further afield.
~ Scientific approach to global exploration; discovery of trade winds and invention of maratime clocks.
~ Vast financial and mineral resources; a rich treasury and plentiful supply of metal ore's and coal.
What would you choose as its defining moment in the evolution of Her empire? And why?
Infinity
Answers
Not really Jimmy Savile was a great charity fundraiser But I can think of many other charity fundraisers who were not also sexual predators and abusers. However, I can't think of any great (as in impressive, powerful, significant) 'empires' or geo-
17:21 Mon 18th Feb 2013
I can't really think of one defining moment. I also watched the Invention series, and I note that one of the presenters said something to the effect that without such-and-such discovery or invention, a successive discovery/invention could not have happened. So it looks as if the present technological benefits that we take for granted are the result of one discovery/invention after another. If I were to choose a 'defining moment', somebody would probably say 'no, it wasn't that, it was something else.' So I say three cheers to the long line of inventors/researchers/explorers, and just plain tinkerers in garden sheds, who made Britain what it is today.
A few thoughts;
Free thinking and a liberal approach to change partly rooted in the Reformation (a lot of scientific research and thinking was done by protestant clergymen)
A lack of State regulation
e.g. France also had lots of clever inventors and plentiful resources but all new ideas had to be examined and approved by the Academy (of science i think) which delayed them for years and effectively killed off innovation.
The Empire (particularly the New World) provided resources, huge profits to finance growth and ready markets for exports
Free thinking and a liberal approach to change partly rooted in the Reformation (a lot of scientific research and thinking was done by protestant clergymen)
A lack of State regulation
e.g. France also had lots of clever inventors and plentiful resources but all new ideas had to be examined and approved by the Academy (of science i think) which delayed them for years and effectively killed off innovation.
The Empire (particularly the New World) provided resources, huge profits to finance growth and ready markets for exports
Probably when we stopped buying slaves out of West Africa, trading then for sugar in the West Indies and bringing the proceeds home.
Or maybe the great reform act in the wake of the Peterloo Massacre when cavalry changed a crowd of men women and children calling for political rights.
When you're considering the British Empire you need to look at its ugly underbelly and consider it in the round.
It brought great riches to many and improvements too but a lot of people suffered and fought and died for those improvements
It's not some shining monument of progress to be held up as a paragon of virtue
Or maybe the great reform act in the wake of the Peterloo Massacre when cavalry changed a crowd of men women and children calling for political rights.
When you're considering the British Empire you need to look at its ugly underbelly and consider it in the round.
It brought great riches to many and improvements too but a lot of people suffered and fought and died for those improvements
It's not some shining monument of progress to be held up as a paragon of virtue
Isn't the point of a paragon that it's held up in comparison to everything and anything?
I think the implication might be in comparison to today or perhaps in comparison to other empires
But that's not really the point.
This is an invitation to ignore all the ugliness and just consider the achievements in a patriotic haze.
I don't think it's really appropriate
A bit like asking
"What do you think Jimmy Saville's greatest charity work was?"
I think the implication might be in comparison to today or perhaps in comparison to other empires
But that's not really the point.
This is an invitation to ignore all the ugliness and just consider the achievements in a patriotic haze.
I don't think it's really appropriate
A bit like asking
"What do you think Jimmy Saville's greatest charity work was?"
Jake, //This is an invitation to ignore all the ugliness and just consider the achievements in a patriotic haze.//
You mean as opposed to ignoring all the enormous achievements in favour of highlighting any ugliness you can dig up – as is always your wont when bashing Britain.
By the way, shameful analogy!
You mean as opposed to ignoring all the enormous achievements in favour of highlighting any ugliness you can dig up – as is always your wont when bashing Britain.
By the way, shameful analogy!
Not really
Jimmy Savile was a great charity fundraiser
But I can think of many other charity fundraisers who were not also sexual predators and abusers.
However, I can't think of any great (as in impressive, powerful, significant) 'empires' or geo-political entities that grew to be so without bringing a mixture of both positive and negative attributes.
That's just how it always is
The OP was referring to the British Empire being 'great' and the 'largest'
Clearly those terms don't assume 'good' or 'bad' any more than an assessment of the 'Great Roman Empire' focuses solely on Julius Caesar's disappointing attitude towards human rights.
Jimmy Savile was a great charity fundraiser
But I can think of many other charity fundraisers who were not also sexual predators and abusers.
However, I can't think of any great (as in impressive, powerful, significant) 'empires' or geo-political entities that grew to be so without bringing a mixture of both positive and negative attributes.
That's just how it always is
The OP was referring to the British Empire being 'great' and the 'largest'
Clearly those terms don't assume 'good' or 'bad' any more than an assessment of the 'Great Roman Empire' focuses solely on Julius Caesar's disappointing attitude towards human rights.
What Made Britain Great? The answer has to be 'Scotland'. You don't believe it? Then read 'How the Scots Invented the Modern World', by Arthur Herman...
http://
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'Guns, Germs and Steel' by Jared Diamond helps to sift through a lot of the reasons why x place appears to have 'progressed' while y didn't.
I can't help thinking that our practice of shipping undesirables to foreign parts enabled the thieving ruling classes to get away with - oh sorry, rule fairly - much longer. Now that we can't do that we're feeling the consequences.
I can't help thinking that our practice of shipping undesirables to foreign parts enabled the thieving ruling classes to get away with - oh sorry, rule fairly - much longer. Now that we can't do that we're feeling the consequences.
@Everyone
Great posts from everyone, enjoyed watching this thread develop. I believe jake-the-peg has had as full an argument from others that I couldn't have expressed better myself. I will raise one issue though; It is essential for us to pass on the whole, unadulterated truth to each other and future generations.
I'm a 'closet pessimist.' Get really p***ed off about the political, economical and warzone situations we have and injustice, mainly, because I know deep down that injustice is the norm for this world. But people focus on the exception to the rule, human achievements and advancement of modern civilisation. I can be patriotic about his country and it's achievements, yet also see the undercurrent of corruption, greed and violence that is cancerous to society. I can demonstrate it further because I served in the British army for just over 2 years and saw two tours of Afghanistan. However, when the decision was made by parliament to assist with the invasion of Iraq, I felt so strongly that our actions where wrong, I left. I would die and kill for my country, but I wouldn't murder. Make what you will of that but it was my conclusion.
@jake
Without all the suffering and pain endured by political, human, religious, employment, voting demonstrators who stood up to tyranny face-to-face, I wouldn't have my rights and freedom of expression!! And they are worth more to mankind as they are, like martyrs, forever remaining in history as a tragic end to such inspirational figures. Would Obama be in the White House today without Luther King's speeches of equality and harmony? Shot down in his prime, elevating him to a icon of righteousness.
@ALL
Ok here's your tea-time teaser folks:- "Of all the lands in the British Empire, there is one where the British Army were unable to conquer the native peoples and were forced to sign a peace treaty with terms for allocation of lands and rights for the people... Who were they?
Infinity
Great posts from everyone, enjoyed watching this thread develop. I believe jake-the-peg has had as full an argument from others that I couldn't have expressed better myself. I will raise one issue though; It is essential for us to pass on the whole, unadulterated truth to each other and future generations.
I'm a 'closet pessimist.' Get really p***ed off about the political, economical and warzone situations we have and injustice, mainly, because I know deep down that injustice is the norm for this world. But people focus on the exception to the rule, human achievements and advancement of modern civilisation. I can be patriotic about his country and it's achievements, yet also see the undercurrent of corruption, greed and violence that is cancerous to society. I can demonstrate it further because I served in the British army for just over 2 years and saw two tours of Afghanistan. However, when the decision was made by parliament to assist with the invasion of Iraq, I felt so strongly that our actions where wrong, I left. I would die and kill for my country, but I wouldn't murder. Make what you will of that but it was my conclusion.
@jake
Without all the suffering and pain endured by political, human, religious, employment, voting demonstrators who stood up to tyranny face-to-face, I wouldn't have my rights and freedom of expression!! And they are worth more to mankind as they are, like martyrs, forever remaining in history as a tragic end to such inspirational figures. Would Obama be in the White House today without Luther King's speeches of equality and harmony? Shot down in his prime, elevating him to a icon of righteousness.
@ALL
Ok here's your tea-time teaser folks:- "Of all the lands in the British Empire, there is one where the British Army were unable to conquer the native peoples and were forced to sign a peace treaty with terms for allocation of lands and rights for the people... Who were they?
Infinity
@ IHI Do not think I would agree that injustice is the default state of the human condition.Nor could I agree that human achievements and the advancement of modern civilisation are the exception to the rule.
I think what made the British Empire "Great" was simply serendipity - a lot of factors all coming to fruition at more or less the same time which provided us with a competitive edge when it came to trade and resource exploitation.
As to your tea time teaser - My military history is not up to much-but might it be South Africa?
I think what made the British Empire "Great" was simply serendipity - a lot of factors all coming to fruition at more or less the same time which provided us with a competitive edge when it came to trade and resource exploitation.
As to your tea time teaser - My military history is not up to much-but might it be South Africa?
Sorry just one little thing...
@lightbulb247
The British mainland hasn't been invaded since 1066, which is nearly a millennia. The same cannot be said about the British Isles however as Nazi Germany occupied some of the Channel Islands during WWII
The French tried it, the Spanish tried it, the Germans tried it and the Vikings tried it but since Normandy conquest of the 11th century, our borders have not been changed. In fact we grew into a truely global, multi-cultural and powerful empire.
Like the Romans achieved, Britain's culture was taken far beyond Her borders where it was taught to societies all over the planet. We shared new technologies and discoveries, taught them to read and write, speak our language and we educated the world to our standards.
Good ol' blighty
@lightbulb247
The British mainland hasn't been invaded since 1066, which is nearly a millennia. The same cannot be said about the British Isles however as Nazi Germany occupied some of the Channel Islands during WWII
The French tried it, the Spanish tried it, the Germans tried it and the Vikings tried it but since Normandy conquest of the 11th century, our borders have not been changed. In fact we grew into a truely global, multi-cultural and powerful empire.
Like the Romans achieved, Britain's culture was taken far beyond Her borders where it was taught to societies all over the planet. We shared new technologies and discoveries, taught them to read and write, speak our language and we educated the world to our standards.
Good ol' blighty
A typical straw man argument from Naomi
Hey why argue the point when you can put mis-represent their position andi attack that?
I'm Not bashing Britain - I named some excellent features like the Great reform act, like our early abolition of slavery
I just ask you to unfurl the flag you're wrapping yourself in and consider things in an objective unbiased manner.
Seems way beyond some people's facalties
Hey why argue the point when you can put mis-represent their position andi attack that?
I'm Not bashing Britain - I named some excellent features like the Great reform act, like our early abolition of slavery
I just ask you to unfurl the flag you're wrapping yourself in and consider things in an objective unbiased manner.
Seems way beyond some people's facalties
some people are never happier than knocking the country, our achievements have been many, if hadn't been for a Brit the internet may well have taken a while longer to get up and running, the Americans are very good at taking British inventions and running with them.
Jimmy savile seems a strange person to bring up considering that much evidence seems to point to the fact he used his considerable clout as a fund raiser for nefarious ends, so i would throw him on the scrapheap of undesirables. He may have raised millions but in doing so no one knows how much of that is tainted money.
British inventors, empire good and bad has seen this country grow exponentially to it's size, forerunners of modern technology, and quite honestly i am proud to call myself English, British,
i count Dickens, Jane Austen, Vera Brittain, among by hero's and heroines, alongside those who contributed in combating fatal diseases, smallpox, scarlet fever to name just two.
Include the Pankhursts for having the strength to combat prejudice and large scale sexist attitudes.
The scientists, archaeologists, are only just beginning to unravel the mystery of these islands, and to say that all civilised life began with the Romans isn't right, as long before they came and conquered people existed who were cultured and modern by today's standards in their thinking,
so many things have made us what we are, good bad and indifferent.
Jimmy savile seems a strange person to bring up considering that much evidence seems to point to the fact he used his considerable clout as a fund raiser for nefarious ends, so i would throw him on the scrapheap of undesirables. He may have raised millions but in doing so no one knows how much of that is tainted money.
British inventors, empire good and bad has seen this country grow exponentially to it's size, forerunners of modern technology, and quite honestly i am proud to call myself English, British,
i count Dickens, Jane Austen, Vera Brittain, among by hero's and heroines, alongside those who contributed in combating fatal diseases, smallpox, scarlet fever to name just two.
Include the Pankhursts for having the strength to combat prejudice and large scale sexist attitudes.
The scientists, archaeologists, are only just beginning to unravel the mystery of these islands, and to say that all civilised life began with the Romans isn't right, as long before they came and conquered people existed who were cultured and modern by today's standards in their thinking,
so many things have made us what we are, good bad and indifferent.
Typical jake to take a perfectly reasonable question and misrepresent it to make some daft unrelated point to do with some other political agenda.
The questioner is looking for the factors that made Britain so rich and powerful in the 19th century. If you know of any why not just say them. He's not really interested in a lesson on human rights legislation.
The questioner is looking for the factors that made Britain so rich and powerful in the 19th century. If you know of any why not just say them. He's not really interested in a lesson on human rights legislation.
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