Yet Another Pcn Query

[mrs_overall]

In the past I have had a couple of Parking Charge Notices sent to me and I have evaded paying by admitting I was the registered keeper but could not remember who the driver was on the date in question. End of the problem.
The law changed in October 2012 making the registered keeper responsible for the payment if they refuse/cannot name the driver.
This week I have had one sent to me for overstaying the limit in an Aldi car park. I was not the driver on this occasion. Two family members also use this car and both drove it on the day in question. Neither admits to going into Aldi although one of them must have as Paid Parking Company have sent a photo of the car going in and out.
I do not want to pay the damn charge. If I gave the name of both possible drivers what would happen? Is there any way out of me paying this?
Please don't give moralising answers.
Thanks in advance

[Buenchico]

Giving the names of both possible drivers wouldn't help as it would simply confirm that one of the necessary conditions for pursuing you for the debt was met:
"The first condition is that the creditor—(a)has the right to enforce against the driver of the vehicle the requirement to pay the unpaid parking charges; but(b)is unable to take steps to enforce that requirement against the driver because the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver."
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4

[DJHawkes]

it's not a proper parking ticket like you get from the local council, it's on a supermarket car park, alot of people would suggest you ignore it

[Buenchico]

>>>alot of people would suggest you ignore it

And some people who've followed that advice have ended up paying £258.36 (plus, possibly, their own legal costs) instead of £65:
http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/2/news/15278/judge-enforces-parking-penalty-in-landmark-case

[sir.prize]

Very true Buencho, that was in 2008 and drivers/owners taken to court is still in the minority. Very few Private Parking Companies will go anywhere near court to try to recover a cost which has been considered by many lawyers as simply an unenforceable invoice. Note: it is a parking charge notice not a penalty charge notice.
Here is some good advice if you get a private parking ticket:

[ubasses]

Try phoning and asking them the time of the parking offence if this would help identify which of them is the culprit.

[Buenchico]

>>>Try phoning and asking them the time of the parking offence

Surely that's on both of the photographs anyway. (Otherwise they couldn't be charging for overstaying).

[New Judge]

Yes, the advice to ignore the charge is not sound and the parking companies most certainly will take legal action to recover these debts. Take a visit to your local County Court for confirmation of this.

I’ve had a quick glance at the legislation kindly provided by Chris (which I had not seen before) and, apart from discrepancies such as time periods and other technical issues, I cannot see any way you can avoid payment, mrs_o.

I think it was drafted precisely to address the situation you describe where registered keepers of vehicles could avoid payment of parking charges simply by denying the fact that they were driving and failing to say who was. It is similar (though not identical) to the way Section 172 of the Road Traffic Act deals with certain traffic offences, most notably speeding. The difference is that S172 establishes a separate offence of failing to provide the driver’s details which can be prosecuted against the Registered Keeper (RK) regardless of the original offence. The 2012 parking legislation does not do this but simply allows the parking company to pursue the debt from the RK. Another key difference is that S172 provides a statutory defence that the RK can use in that he shall be not guilty if “…he did not know and could not with reasonable diligence have ascertained who the driver of the vehicle was.” The 2012 parking legislation does not seem to provide such a defence.

[mrs_overall]

One thing someone said is that if the car park is free to use for 1.5 hours (the car overstayed for 20 mins) and there is no means of paying for further parking, then the maximum the company could be awarded in court is £0.
Also, surely making a person (the keeper) liable for a civil breach of contract with another person (the driver) is surely contrary to the long established legal principles under Contract Law?

[humbersloop]

mrs o, tbh, I reckon you're stuffed and might better spend time paying the sixty five quid then taking a sand-filled marigold to the family members concerned to get them to fess up and cough you a refund

[mrs.chappie]

If you end up paying it, Mrs.O, I do hope the two in question will do the decent thing and pay half each.

It'd be a right bummer if you ended up out of pocket and you weren't even driving. :o(

[Buenchico]

Where parking charges are clearly displayed on private land, you enter into a contract to pay those charges if you park there. If the sign says "First 1½ hours free, thereafter £60 per day or part day" (or something similar), you've agreed to pay those charges.

The Aldi store which used to be in Stowmarket had a similar sign but it clearly specified that parking was only free while the driver was in the store. They successfully charged several drivers who they'd seen leaving the car park area to shop elsewhere (even if they'd actually shopped in Aldi as well).

[bazwillrun]

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/private-parking-tickets

Has everything you need the legal side etc, what to do and dont do and is usually right up to date, also there is a section on all other types of parking tickets.

[mrs_overall]

Thanks all

[sir.prize]

[mikey4444]

As ALDI would seem to be in the right to pursue you for breaking their trust, it would appear that your relatives are in the wrong. Clearly someone is lying and its unlikely to be ALDI.

Until the guilty one or ones own up, can I suggest removing the use of your car ?

[mrs_overall]

Why on earth did I type Paid Parking Company in the question? It should have said Paid Parking Company

The guilty party has owned up (after much interrogation and threats).
Now here is a spanner in the works. They have said that they weren't actually parked for the full period but waited 20 minutes for a disabled bay to come free (yes, they have a blue badge).

[mrs_overall]

dammit, I typed the name of the company again then and it won't show it!

[Paul22118]

Mrs O, maybe its justice that has caught up with your earlier wriggly ways...........some would say. But I couldn't possibly comment.

[joko]

i read somehwere that they are only entitled to whatever excess costs your extra 20 mins cost them ... and as it was a free car park, that can only be zero or very small amount like £1 or somehting.
it cost them nothing as everyone else stayed free too

read the money saving expert stuff