Snappy border collie

[Rosenicola]

Hi Guys

I really need your advice..

I have a male border collie who is 19 months old and ive had him since he was 10 weeks old.

He has been fine since the start, but around six weeks ago he snapped at me and tried to bite me when i tried to grab him to stop him from leaving the house as we live near a main road.

I was quite hurt, but thought nothing of it as i thought he might just be scared as i was quite close to him at the time and thought he might have just felt threatened.

Tonight, he has just run out of the door so i went to get him, he laid down and i grabbed his collar to bring him back in and he bit my wrist. He was growling too. When i tried to get him off me, he bit even harder. he has took the skin off my wrist and hand and he left teeth marks.

As soon as we got in the house i was going to slap him on the nose and he went for me again, but then his ears went back and he looked really sorry. (

I don't ever hit him by the way, but this is quite serious as u can imagine)

I don't know what to do. I don't know if it's what these dogs do as i know they are quite a lot of hard work and stuff, but he's never done it before.

I just don't want him to bite a little kid or something if they mess with him.

Also it's hurt my feelings a little as he is treated like a prince in my house :-) But honestly, i just feel rubbish because he wants to hurt me like that. That's probably not the case at all, but that's how it feels.

He gets walked everyday and plenty of excercise and loads of love and he's usually a great dog.

What could be wrong with him and why would he suddenly start biting. Sorry it's long, but thought i should tell u the whole story..

Sorry it's here, but thought i'd get a quicker answer, it's in pets section too..

Thanks :-(

[ELVIS68]

Border Collies are working dogs, my auntie had one as a pet and he was a nasty bastad, in the end she had him put down after he turned on her once too often

[RATTER15]

Border Collies are not the greatest of dogs to have as a family pet, they need to be entertained and their mind kept active and alert or they will become snappy, I never trust a border collie, I've worked with and been around dogs all my life and find many people thinking these collies are excellent pets, they can be but also they can be snappy.

The first thing to do is have your dog checked for injuries, it could be snapping because it is in pain, also discuss the situation with your vet and see what he/she says.

I think it could be something that you don't want to hear!

Good luck!!!!

[Redbel]

Hiya Rosenicola....can't add much to what has been said above.....but it may be worth taking him to obedience classes. These dogs are highly intelligent dogs and need lots of exercise and mental stimulation. He's still only a young dog so it's not too late.... Have a word with your vet, they will give you guidance.

Good Luck xxx

[Rosenicola]

Honestly, thanks for the answers guys.

He's been sucking up all night and im trying to ignore him.. Don't know what else to do, but im taking him to the vet on Saturday, so ill see what they say

Night xxx

[ELVIS68]

Good choice Rosenicola, first thing they`ll do is his have his nuts off, that should calm him down, but if he still insists on biting you, then it`s up to you to do what`s best for you and the dog

[Rosenicola]

LOL Elvis

I am going to get his do da's taken off (poor soul) and see what that does. he'ss hate me for life.

I was told by my father that it'll be because he is after the dog across the cul-de-sac. It just so happens that he runs out of the door for her and this is when he does for me, not at any other time.

I think this is what it'll be, but im not taking any chances, I'll get him to the vet as i said before and see what they say..

xx

[Rosenicola]

That should say **GOES** for me, not **DOES** for me

Sorry - It's getting late :-)

[ELVIS68]

lol...I hope it cures him, keep us posted, good luck x

[Cheesefreek]

We got a dog from the local dogs' home. He's part Staff, and we think a bit of German Shepherd. The people at the home told us he was bad with other dogs and over boisterous. Also, the people who took him before brought him back after six days cos they were scared he was going to bite someone. We took him anyway, and within 4 days we had him castrated. Whether it's that or the fact that he's feeling more secure, but he's calmed down, never runs off and is a really happy dog. He hasn't got any aggression in him unless another dog attacks him, and then he'll defend himself. So Yippee for castration. They never even notice they've gone.

[kita1]

Try and find a good dog training class in your area. BC's love things like agility (and you can make lots of friends too!).

Try these links to find a training class:

http://www.apdt.co.uk/list_trainers.asp

http://www.apbc.org.uk/clinic_region.php

also

http://www.coape.co.uk

Also I would make sure that the doors are shut and he cannot get out until I want him to (preferably attached to a lead!).

Smacking a dog on the nose will only have one result - a bite.

If you left the door open and let the dog 'escape' then why punish/tell the dog off? The dog did not disobey you (did you try giving a command first before grabbing his collar, like sit or down?).

If you train your dog to 'down' on command then you should not have to 'grab' him.

A good training class would show you how.

[pingping]

dogs come into heat from age 18 months onwards, so he is the canine equivalent of a testosterone driven teenager at the moment! he can smell the bitch across the street and wants only to get to her, and you are getting in the way. getting him neutered should amend his behaviour.

[Rosenicola]

Hi Guys,

Thanks again for the replies

Hi Kita, I did ask him to sit and he did. I didn't grab his collar as such. I didn't mean literally. I 'held' his collar to bring him back into the house and he rolled onto his back so I couldn't move him. I then tried to pull him as he sat back up onto his feet and this is when he bit me.

I didn't use any force on him and this is why I am surprised he bit me.

When I got in the house, I was going to give him a clip on the nose, but he went for me again. I can understand he may snap if I go to clip him, but he shouldn't be biting and I have never ever hit or slightly tapped him before as he is usually so well behaved.

I'm going to the vets on Saturday and I will definitely look into those links for the classes. Thanks very much for that

xx

[leelapops]

Hi Rosenicola, I hope all goes well for you and your BC. I have a male Collie, 3 in October. Although never snappy with me, my partner, family and friends, he can NEVER be around children, with their unpredictable movements and loud noises!

He is a lovely dog, but they do need a lot of stimulation. I must admit, he doesn't get as much stimulation as he should, but we try our best. It is VERY noticeable, if I leave his big walk until later in the day, tht he needs to get out-he's like a tightly-coiled spring! He is oddly food possessive, although he has never had to be, if that makes sense. Before castration, he could be quick to react to other male dogs, although he wasn't a "h*rny" dog, he didn't hump, or chase after the ladies! However, castration calmed his response, and I know he won't ever get any cancers etc. "down there". The op is relatively quick, they took Jack in early in the morning, and he was ready for pick-up by 2pm.

I understand you may be feeling a little shaken or upset-it's natural, especially when your dog obv. means so much to you. Don't let his actions hurt you though, first and foremost you are his owner, and you'll have to remain a little detached in order to see the problem rationally from outside. The advice here is usually very good, so you're right to come and ask everyone. There's some v knowledgable people about :)

Let us all know what the vet says, and how he is. Give him a pet from me.

[kita1]

That is why it is so hard to give advice on dog training/behaviour over the internet! When you originally said you 'grabbed' his collar it sounded much more dramatic than what you just said in your last reply! You really need to see the dog interacting with the owner to sort out any problems.

BC's really do need to be occupied, that is why I suggested training classes and/or agility. Your vet may be good for advice, but beware they are not all good at advising on behaviour, some vets have little or no knowledge of training/behaviour you will be far better off finding a good trainer (who maybe owns BC's themselves).

A list of Agility clubs can be found here:

http://www.agilitynet.co.uk/activepages/clubsv 2_ed.asp

Remember these dogs are bred to run after sheep/cows over field and moor ALL DAY!

I have actually worked a BC with year old cows walking the cows from one field to another 6 miles away. It took the main part of a day, we got back and the dog immediately started to round up the hens in the farmyard!!

Good luck (don't get too downhearted).

[lankeela]

First of all stop feeling guilty - the dog is the one that is in the wrong. I suspect he has got you sussed, and thinks he is top dog, and is resenting you trying to stop him doing what he wants, i.e. get to the bitch across the road.

While castration will in time calm him down and will certainly stop him going after the ladies, it is the immediate problem you need help with. Find a good trainer from the apdt site, and they will teach you how to assert your authority over the dog so he knows you are the pack leader.
This will involve things like you eating first before feeding him, making him wait while you go through doorways, you instigating play sessions and deciding when they end, and even deciding when to stroke the dog, if he comes up for a fuss. You must be in charge at all times, and the dog needs to learn respect for you.

This may all sound rather harsh, but a dog that bites people has only one outcome if you don't get it sorted.

Please feel free to ask questions on here, there are a lot of experienced dog people who have known these sort of problems, but you must be willing to take a stand.

[lankeela]

Try getting hold of the book 'The Dog Whisperer' by Jan Fennell. There is a wealth of information and advice in there.

[newtron]

lankeela is right. You need to show the dog that you are dominant with no exception. Since he has bitten you more than once, this might be difficult to do. First of all, don't be afraid of your dog. I have found that one way to show dominance very quickly after a dog has has challenged his master is to knock him down swiftly and roll him over on his back. This can be done by pulling his front legs toward you while swiftly pushing on his shoulder. This should be done quickly and forcefully. Hold him down untill he acts submissively. Ultimately, the dog has be convinced that if you two were to fight that you would win! In the beginning, it is good if the dog fears you slightly. If you take care of your dog well and are consistent, that fear will turn into respect, and you will be best friends. Lankeela also has some good suggestion on how to be dominant. Good luck.

[kita1]

Before you try the 'Alpha' role described above please read the following:

http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/2004/ Debunking.pdf

also:

http://www.dogwhispererdvd.com/faq-domin.html

If you try flipping some dogs over as described you could be doing more harm than good, you could well escalate the situation and if you cannot 'overpower' your dog and you do not 'win' you have openly declared to your dog that you wish to kill him (that is what a wolf intends to do when it flips another dog - it is not showing dominance). I know what my reaction would be if my boss tried to show his 'leadership' that way!

[Illyria54]

Had you recently had to reprimand him for something else, before this incident? I ask this because a dog that throws itself onto its back is doing it in submission, a dog will only show its soft underbelly if it is scared, when he did this, you should have let go and left him alone, then sat down quietly, ignoring him until he came to see you voluntarily, then you could have stroked him in a calm way, but you were angry and you frightened him, this is why he threw himself onto his back, he wasn't being aggressive at that point....you were! and he did the only thing he knew how, and that was to submit! If he is fear biting then castration won't make the slightest difference to him, that said, I believe that all dogs should be done as a matter of course. I have a Border Collie myself and they need to be kept busy almost constantly, hide things in the garden or around the house so he can go find them, you will have to show him to begin with but he will learn quickly, obviously they need lots of excercise mine gets around 2 hours each day (not all at once),I joined an agility club as well, my dog loves it, and it does me good too.

[Illyria54]

Would like to add, that I'm not accusing you of being aggressive, only pointing out to you how it would be interpreted by your dog.