Opinions about people with status dogs (bull type dogs)

[toffena]

Hi everyone,
Some of this has been asked and answered before but I thought it might be interesting to have another debate about this. I'm considering doing a study about people who own these breeds of dogs and need as much information as possible.
I've seen the discussion on the BBC Panorama documentary about dog fighting and I'm preparing myself to watch it online tonight.
I've also seen discussions about "chavs with their dogs" and think this is really interesting.
Do you think that chavs more often than not own these types of dogs? If so, what kind of a person would you describe as a chav?
What do you think the reasons are for owning a breed of dog like this?
Thanks!

[woofgang]

with great respect, while you may also want opinions, they aren't information as such.

[toffena]

Yeah I realise that opinions are not necessarily information that will be used in a study. But considering how little I know about the topic..and the fact that there actually hasn't been any research on this, anything I can get my hands on would help.
Also I'm hoping that by asking this here I can reach a lot more people than I would normally. And hopefully a wide range of people. So if someone who does own one of these breeds of dogs sees this, answers back and tells me what their experiences are then I have a lot more information than I started out with :)
I'm not actually going to use any of this...I just thought a discussion would enlighten me before I got down to the technical stuff.

[carmalee]

A line you may consider taking Toffena is that SBTerriers are usually the most soppy of dogs - they were originally bred in the Midlands by working class folk who couldn't afford kennels so the dogs lived within the family environment and were thoroughly trustworthy with even the youngest family members - their fighting traits were confined to the ring - it's a sad fact that they have become synonymous with 'a macho image' around people.It's against their nature to be aggressive toward people - in recent years society has changed that.

[toffena]

Hi Carmalee,
I understand what you're saying and I don't believe that any dog is vicious by nature.
How did the change come about though? The change from a family dog to a fighting dog...
Nowadays, from what I can see myself, society seems to associate them with one type of person. And it's not clear to me exactly what type of person that is (besides the commonly termed chav) and why this type of person feels the need to own this breed of dog.

[jaydah]

I've seen black & asians with them - its part of the drug scene.

[katekoala]

Most 'aggressive' dogs are used as status symbols. I have watched a lot of pet programmes/rescue programmes and ususally the same scenario. Chavs not so much, but more used for status / protection / threats by gangs and drug dealers. I dont believe that any dog is naturally aggreesive and it is the people that force them into the way of life. You only need to look at the wolves - they arent violent unless hunting for prey/eating - and as that shouldnt really happen in a domestic dog - there is no need for this trait. I have seen every episode of the dog whisperer and I have seen tehe amazing work he has done to rehabilitate dogs that by our standards - were killers!

i think typical breeds used are rotties, staffies, bulldogs, pitbulls

[McMouse]

Anne, the Princess Royal keeps SB terriers and one of hers killed one of the Queen's corgis. I don't think Anne is a chav, but I could be wrong.

[society]

http://tinyurl.com/ysvva

http://tinyurl.com/2cxrz2s

[carmalee]

with respect Toffena the Staffy was both a family dog and a fighting dog but boundaries were much clearer then and whereas they were looked upon as a staus symbol, they were not expected to back up their owners lack of courage (
except within the criminal fraternity - as were other breeds). It depends how deep you want to go into the dog thing and how much you want to correlate it with how society treats animals. All dogs are descended from wolves but we have systematically bred traits to such a degree that we have the hundreds of breeds we are familiar with today - all of them for our benefit. At the moment there are a lot of Staffys and cross breds about - they are easy to get hold of and because of their ancestory, relatively easy to handle. There is a dog fighting culture which this breed is associated with - not sure about the connection with the 'chav scene' as I'm an old person but can see the attraction of a butchy type animal in a studded collar to those who need an extension of themselves.

[toffena]

So years ago bull dogs were clearer on their roles, and nowadays that has blurred...if i understood right.
Searching through google, most links will be about this breed of dog and chavs, or dog fighting, or another case of a dog attacking a human.
Would it be right in saying then that nowadays people are using this dog more for their fighting abilities rather than any other qualities? And these people would be criminal types? Would we be looking at a specific person (young, criminal, poorer, less education) or just any criminal type person?

[jaydah]

Dealers have them for protection while they deal. Tinkers keep them in vehicles to protect tools & equipment. Gramps have SB as they're small, short-coated & slow/lazy movers.

[carmalee]

Toffena - dogs are not intrinsically up for a punch up - if they get injured they can't survive so why would they fight for the fun of it? - a really good line to take IMO is that indiscriminate dog breeding is for profit. However, have to ask, why are you considering doing a study and to what ends?

[Booldawg]

I would people using these dogs for fighting purposes are very much in the minority; its so far underground only those very much 'in the know' would be participating. The dog fighting fraternity wouldn't entertain the use of mainstream breeds such as the Staffy or EBT. Their dogs are through and through pit bulls with a proven track record in the fighting pits.

Dogs for status symbols have traditionally been the KC recognised breeds. This has spiralled over the last 10 years or so. They are an extension of the personality - much like some Paris Hilton type charachter tottering around with a bichon frise tucked into her Prada hand-bag.

Bull breed dogs have often been linked to 'gangster culture' due to their use in guarding properties where illegal activites such as drug pushing goes on. These again are likely to be more specialist breeds such as The Perro Presa de Canario (Canary Dog) or bull mastiff types - these dogs have natural guarding instincts whereas regular bull and terrier breeds are likely to lick you to death if you enter their house, invited or not.

[toffena]

I'm a PhD student and my studies involve animal welfare. So I'm looking at attitudes towards animals and other factors that are related...later on I'd like to do something more applied. Looking at people who use dogs as status symbols, or weapons, is something that hasn't been looked at at all...and considering all the media attention on this, it's something that definitely needs research.
Saying that chavs own these dogs for status isn't enough..we need to look at it from the opposite side and ask whether shady people do tend to own these types of dogs and why. It could be that in reality, only a minority of people involved in crime own these dogs too. So this is an opportunity to see what exactly is going on, and why.

[lankeela]

Princess Anne owns Bull Terriers, which are a totally different breed to Staffs. Staffs were not bred for fighting each other. The majority of dogs owned by the chavvy types are either not pure bred Staffs, or are very poor specimens, which they then allow to breed with their friends' dogs and either sell or give the puppies away to other friends and so it goes on. As a breed Staffs will rarely start a fight, but they sure as hell would enjoy getting involved and could certainly finish one. They are generally friendly towards humans, especially children, but the types you refer to will rarely bother to train them and they are therefore often out of control. They are easier to obtain and manage than the Rottweilers or German Shepherds that have traditionally been the guarding breeds. Dog fighting is a totally different game, where Pit Bulls or crosses are used.

[woofgang]

We were driving through a slightly iffy part of town the other day and there was hoodie Jack the lad strutting along with a bully terrier type dog beside him...the difference was this dog was glowing with pleasure because he was out with his boss...you must have seen it, dog's tail waving, every so often he peers up at boss and grins. In his turn, every time the dog looked up, this big tough looking bloke bent almost double to give his dog a little fuss and cuddle. Now I have no idea why he first got a dog or chose that one but I bet he wasn't keeping it to look tough!!

[Booldawg]

There are genuine dog loving chavs out there I'm sure. Look at Battersea Dogs home website. I'd say at least 75% of dogs on there are poor bred staffs.

The reason chavs prefer the breed is fairly simple. They subscribe to the whole 'gangster' image from dress sense to lawless, disrespectul attitude.

The dogs are muscular, tenacious and known scrappers - exactly what chavs aspire too. Its an extension of their personalities.

When first looking to buy a staff back in 1998 I went to a few staff club run dog shows. Beleive me, there were more skinhead haircuts and tattoos than you'd see at a poodle show. The dogs do attract a more working class, rough and ready owner.

[rowanwitch]

for some reason in the area near me that is frequented by chavs there has been an increase in siberian huskies and Akitas not too worried about the huskies but the Akitas are very powerful and as far as I can tell (a friend had one) not as easy to train... apparently it is the resemblance to wolves that is making them the new macho dog

[jake-the-peg]

You sound as if it's not so much status dogs as weapon dogs your interested in

There are a lot of other people with different sorts of status dogs.

This is because they associate a particular breed with a particular lifestyle and the dog becomes an accessory.

The black Labrador next to the green wellies jumps immediately to mind

Then there are the Chihuahua in my handbag types.

I suggest a "study" of just weapon dogs may seem vicarious, sensationalist and clss-obsessed

A wider look at dogs or even animals in general as status symbols might be more interesting