Fao A Plumber, The Builder Or Power Shower People!

[Prudie]

Can anyone please advise on whether this is acceptable, based on plumbing or consumer experience!!

A plumber franchised to a reputable (and flashy) local bathroom design company has quoted us £1300 to replace an old shower pump (in the airing cupboard, roof tank etc stays) breakdown as follows:

£600 ish for the pump - 3bar pressure, double thingy, brand name begins with M + another word (plumber said buy cheap, buy twice)

£200 for bits

£500 labour (2 people @£250 a day each for 1 day)

I'm concerned we are being taken for a ride but neither of us know about these things. What do you think? Much appreciate any advice.

[ladybirder]

All I can tell you Prudie is that I have to pay £30/hour for any jobs I need doing in my flat.

[Maydup]

The best thing to do is to get another quote. 

[Jarg]

They are definitely trying to rip you off.

[Prudie]

The problem is Maydup we are tied into the bathroom company doing the work, they have already renovated 2 bathrooms and we're not happy with the water pressure. We are expecting some of the cost ( a very small bit) to be knocked off as part of a due refund for grout paid for and not used. It's a bit of a long story.

[Togo]

You are being charged double for a 3 bar shower pump. £200 for bits, and £500 labour for what could be done by one man? Are you living in Saudi Arabia? Get a sensible quote. 

[Jarg]

I used to work for Dolhin showers who become Moben I think.

This company you are with seem to sound like just the same as them. Total rip of merchants

[The Builder]

Hi Prudie. Just got in. Monsoon pump? 

That looks a lot. I need to give it some thought. I'll post tomorrow (thurs).

[brainiac]

£250 a day each?  Waaay too much.  Why does it need two people anyway?

[Jarg]

Probably elf and safety 😁

[Prudie]

Hi The Builder! So the exact one he has recommended is the "Stuart Turner 3 bar monsoon universal" to run 2 showers that before they did complete renovations worked from an old 1.5 bar pump and both showers were powerful enough for us. The new ones (still connected to our original syteme) are at least 50% less effective with reasoning given by another plumber who did the work - EU reg narrower pipes, a feed pipe has moved a bath length horizontally so loses power as it travels, showers designed to run on high pressure sytems (combis I guess) and of course that our origianl pump chose to become knackered at the same time that the renovations were carried out.

We have 2 showroom bathrooms in looks and functionality way way worse than the old bathrooms we had before.

[royfromaus]

 The new ones (still connected to our original syteme) are at least 50% less effective with reasoning given by another plumber who did the work - EU reg narrower pipes, a feed pipe has moved a bath length horizontally so loses power as it travels, 

_______________________________-

That's made my fuzzy head fuzzier. 

[The Builder]

I think I can guess what's happened here Prudie. It's not uncommon. Poncey bathroom/kitchen designers design a layout. Something they're often very good at. But... they have little regard for practicalities. There's an old saying in the architectural world 'form follows function'. They design the form, and the plumber has to ensure the function.

My guess is they've altered and re-routed the bathroom(s) supply pipework. A 1.5 bar pump that was sufficient before, struggles, is inadequate, and fails. Hence new pump.

Obviously no liaison between designer and fitter. No point in going over how this could have been avoided. That's not going to help you.

A Stuart Turner Monsoon Pump is probably one of the best available. They have been for years. This pump has a RRP of around 600 plus vat, although a quick Google tells me you can get one for less than 400.

Fitting as a direct replacement is quick and simple. Maybe an hour or less for a competent person. (On his own.)

2 fellas for a whole day plus 200 for bits suggests substantial pipework alterations, although I'd have to be convinced as to why it's necessary. The plumber should take the time to go through the whole procedure with you if indeed these alterations are needed. Easy for me to say sitting here.

I don't like the smell of this. EU regs and pipework sizing sounds like pure horseradish. I get very interested when tradesmen start quoting spurious 'regulations' in lieu of simple good communication.

Good tradesmen work on 'trust'. (Don't laugh. It does exist.) 

The cost of the pump is debatable. The extent of pipework alterations has not been specified. The quote may well be justified. Or... it may be a cover-up for what should have been identified before work even began.

I know I'm not helping, but these things really wind me up. All easily avoided with good old-fashioned 'duty of care.'

Make a nuisance of yourself. We need more information.

[davebro3]

Too late now but - If it aint broke don't try to fix it! Probably shoulda stuck with the old bathrooms.

[Prudie]

The old bathrooms were 25 years old and looked awful and very dated but everything worked. We went to a poncey showroom in our local town yes and I don't dare tell you how much we have paid for a completely new ensuite & family bathroom, it never crossed our minds that the water bit would be worse.. They look magazine quality but IMO the plumbers are not skilled enough to know how all the new stuff works. My cistern takes 8 minutes to fill (it's a behind the wall with 2 button plate style), the basin taps flow at 2.7 litres a minute and the shower pressure is really tedious, especially for hair washing. I have been moaning for 3 months to the company and I think they believe I'm a stuck up cow. I'm particularly interested in this being a 2 man day job....

[davebro3]

£250 a day "assisting" a plumber. I missed my vocation!

[The Builder]

Your basin tap flow rate should be at least twice that, and the cistern fill time is pitiful. 

The first question I would ask is: are the cold taps and the WC cistern fed from the roof tank? This stopped being acceptable years ago. In fact there is a legal requirement for basin cold to be direct from the mains (drinking water.)

Do you perhaps have a very low mains pressure? Even so, a 3 bar pump should overcome that. In fact, I'll stick my neck out and say that the new pump should overcome all your problems.

If they can justify the '2 men plus bits' part of the quote, then it'll have to be done.

While we have this can of worms open, I have another question for them. Is the roof tank big enough to supply via a 3-bar pump? Put simply... a powerful pump thrusting away supplying 2 bathrooms could empty a too-small tank faster than the mains could replenish it. Just a thought. I've seen that on more than one occasion.

[Smowball]

I'd listen to The Builder - he knows what he's talking about.

[The Builder]

Smow... Mwahhh X..............  🤗

[Prudie]

I would always listen to him, that's why I name checked him in the title in hope. I just wish I'd asked before. Yes all taps/immersion etc upstairs are fed from roof tank. He did say he could switch it over to mains fed but that added several more £100s to the quote. I don't know why the plumber who did the work in the first place didn't suggest it while the rooms were gutted.

[Smowball]

Mwahhh too TB...... 

Prudie - hindsight is a wonderful thing x