why don't pedigrees lives as long as mongrels?

[fatmanlevi04]

Is this fact or fiction?

[wildwood]

As a rule pedegrees are inbred to a varying degree, much more than mongrels. To promote the breed's traits in the progeny not enough attention is paid to the undesirable attributes or it is completely ignored, so combining genes for bad bones, hips, hearts etc. etc. Some of the popular older small breeds are quite long lived though. No doubt due to them having a large gene pool.

[Siamsal]

I've had pedigree & mongrel cats, and the pedigrees lived longer than the mongrels.

[scuzzball]

no they didn't.

[Noweia]

Of course there will be exceptions, but generally crossbreeds live longer and perform better than pure bred animals. This is because, as wildwood says, many pure breeds have associated problems, for example hip dysplasia in the german shepherd and lymphosarcoma in the bull mastiff. Crossbreeds and mongrels tend to not have these problems to the same extent.

This doesn't just apply to dogs and cats, but also large animals such as pigs and cattle, and is termed 'hybrid vigour' - where the crossbred offspring perform better than the purebred parents.

[lankeela]

Thats b*llox! You only see the mongrels and crossbreeds that have survived, the others have died young! Anyway, how do you think mongrels and crossbreeds are bred - they are the product of other breeds. For instance if you bred say a Cavalier (heart problems, eye problems, immune system problems etc.) with another breed or crossbreed, it could pass on these problems.

It is more to do with the general upkeep and feeding etc. that decides whether they live longer.

Generally bigger breeds do not live as long as smaller ones, and this is the same for mongrels. A Rottie x GSD will probably live no longer than either purebred Rott or GSD, particularly if it inherits hip problems, intestinal problems, eyes, etc.

A smaller mongrel or cross may well live longer, because it is the product of two breeds that are known to live long lives.

My breed is small (average 12 inches at the shoulder). They live usually into their mid teens, and many have reached 18 or more.

[fatmanlevi04]

Thanks for all of your answers guys, I asked because I had a 4 year old BullMastiff up until several years ago, called Levi and nicknamed fatmonean hence my username, unfortunately we didn't look into the breeders past or records and he was diagnosed with a heart murmur very early on, by which time we were smitten, apparently we can't do anything for a dog with this condition although with humans you can, he was a 13 stone hunk and took his medication like a baby and in the four years I had him hardly ever left his side, he would even come to work with me when I was a rep!, you never get over them. Ive now got two crosses both rescue a lurcher who has a mohican and a goatie and thinks he is human and a lakeland cross who thinks he is a parrot, they are both now in fab health after a somewhat apparent neglectful start to life. I really can't understand how anyone could even dislike dogs never mind hurt them and heres hoping my boys live into there late teens x

[lankeela]

Sadly any dog can suffer from a heart murmur, it is not breed specific. In some breeds heart problems can be inherited (such as Cavaliers) and it is up to buyers to ensure they go to reputable breeders who have done all health checks for any breed they are contemplating buying.
Unfortunately, most mongrel/crossbreed litters are unplanned and so no health checks are done, and no temperament testing, which is why so many end up in rescue homes.

Hope your two live a long a happy life.

[fatmanlevi04]

thanx Lankeela me 2

[wildwood]

lankeela you have defeated your own argument. You say that a cavelier bred with another breed could pass the bad genes on.
By the time a dog becomes a 'mongrel' (say one quarter cavelier) there would be very little of the cavelier's genes left in relation to the other non-cavelier's genes so less chance of getting the associated ailments.
Surely you have to admit that two caveliers bred together have therefore a much larger chance of having a large proportion of bad genes.

[lankeela]

That depends on how the disease is inherited. If it is on a recessive gene, then it needs to come from both parents, and my point was that you could mate together two different breeds (or mongrels) that both have the same condition. For instance my breed suffers from lens luxation which also affects Jack Russells, so it you had a crossbreed of these two breeds, they could still be affected.

If it is on a dominant gene, then it only needs to come from one parent, and this could be either a pedigree or a 'pure' mongrel, that has inherited it from one of its parents.

It has nothing to do with the level of inbreeding, if two complete outcrosses have the same gene, it can be passed on. Even if a litter brother and sister are mated together, if they don't have the defective gene they cannot pass it on.

[lankeela]

Also your comment about breeds having large gene pools is not correct. My breed has a very small gene pool and they are generally long lived.

But take a breed like the Golden Retriever - a large gene pool? Not on your life! They are all line bred to two particular dogs.

[fatmanlevi04]

Fair point Wildwood, thats what the vets led us to believe about Levi (the mastiff I lost) that he had been bred and interbred to make him bigger, butcher and a QUOTE "better looking mastiff, however looking back and after reading a lot about thre bread joining sites dedicated to mastiffs example a strong healthy male should not exceed 10 to 11 stone, Levi was 13 and it was pure bone structure and muscle his back end was at the end painfully thin, we were told due to the murmur it is hard to beathe and swallow at the same time, it was heartbreaking trying to get him to eat and what I would of done to have had him 2-3 stone lighter of muscle and bone mass and a little pot belly. I believe puppy farmers like that should be set free in the enclosures where they keep the stud dog breeds and let the dogs out.

[Noweia]

Sorry lankeela, but I still stick with my opinion that crossbreeds are better than purebreds! I see far more pure bred dogs than mongrels (although thankfully breeders have started taking note and now aim to improve breed health as much as conformation!).

[wildwood]

lankeela you are really starting to annoy me now. If two dogs are bred together from the one breed than, by your own admission, it is likely that they carry the bad genes that carry the negative health problems for that breed. If two mongrels are bred together it is unlikely that that same health problem will turn up. Don't try and confuse the issue by stating ridiculous postulations that dominant mutations may be carried. Anyone who breeds animals with visual breed-related health problems is a raving lunatic.

Golden Retrievers haven't got a large gene pool???? There are million+ Golden Retrievers all over the world! The problem is that many breeders wants to breed with the top dog and little consideration is given to the problems associated with inbreeding. If you know the true meaning of line breeding and still maintain that this is not relavent to health problems than I fear you can't be swayed to think about this reasonably.

[fatmanlevi04]

After Levi died we were told that his father whom we found out was his brother had a murmur could this be how it became worse

[lankeela]

Sorry if I am annoying you, but I am afraid that says more about your inability to comprehend simple genetics than my knowledge of line breeding.

There may be millions of Golden Retrievers all over the world, but as I said, they all go back to the two original ones which were created by Lord Tweedsmuir. therefore they could all carry the same genes.

End of conversation, you obviously don't want to accept this theory.

[lankeela]

Noweia could it possible by that you see more pedigrees than mongrels because there are more pedigrees than mongrels and owners of pedigrees are far more likely to spend money on taking their dogs to the vets than the owners of many mongrels?

[fatmanlevi04]

Lankeela, I hope that is not true of all animal lovers and as much as I have loved what you have to say as an animal lover myself I disagree with your last comment, by god do you see more Mongrels than pedigrees not the other way round and unfortunately tending to walk the streets minus a lead and an owner and as the previous owner of two pedigrees, my two lads I have now are both rescue and as far as I know could be crossed, who knows??
And believe me I have seen too much of the inside of a vets when I first got both ata pathetic sum of under �40 a dog (apparently for board and lodgings, or in my eyes s*it and p*ss) when I first got them. A dogs a dog who cares how much it costs, if i saw more pedigrees it might lessen the times I have driven home from work only to practically abandon my car to try to keep dogs from wandering onto the road whilst in heat being followed by A STUD and theres only me bothered including my local police station who close over night and won't take them making me have to travel further,

[lankeela]

I was referring to seeing more pedigrees than mongrels in the vets, I fully agree that you see more mongrels out in the street on their own than you do pedigrees.

I have never said all pedigree breeders are good, in fact the majority of pedigrees in 'pet' homes come from either puppy farms, or from breeders who just want to make a quick buck. The vast majority of breeders that I have connections with are very responsible, most are members of breed clubs and work hard to promote the health and wellbeing of their breeds and are very careful where they let their puppies go.

If people would only be a bit more careful where they buy their pedigree puppies from and not just buy them out of the local free paper, off the internet or off a notice board at a newsagent then there might be less demand and maybe fewer would be bred.

[fatmanlevi04]

I can not believe I have spent ten minutes typing a reply to be told by my laptop it can't find a server GGGRRRRR.

I actually was replying to your answer Laneeta in a nutshell agreeing with you but also saying we dont all know that much about dogs except in our hearts when we get one how much we love and treat them and I just wish there were a few more like you around, cheers Becca x