Cruelty

[andy hughes]

Am I alone in thinking that the treatment of the indiginous wildlife in 'i'm A Celebrity ...' amounts to cruelty to animals? Forcing wildlife of separate species into containers in order to dump them on someone's head, and eating individual animals alive purely for the revulsion / entertainment of a viewing audience is simply not civilised. Any comments?

[pipofski]

yes, i think you're probably alone in thinking that.

people start bleating on about cruelty to animals cos a few of them were put in a jar or eaten alive. ooooohh how bad.

aboriginal people spent thousands of years eating those grubs and insects found in the bush, and just because it was being done by celebrities on TV doesn't make it worse - just part of the food chain and survival of the fittest etc.

most people who went on holiday to a place like that would probably kill at the first opportunity any of the little bugs that were crawling about rather than bleating on about cruelty to them. Get a grip man.

[PaulB]

Oh dear...
I think that it was a bit too much with the eating of the insects etc as most of the time I had my eyes closed cos it made me feel sick lol

[BadBob]

While I agree its not particuarly civilised and does not appeal to me in the slightest, don't over estimate the complexity of the animals nervous system. I'm not saying it right but many people eat meat where the animals with far more complex nervous systems are subjected to cramped and cruel conditions. I think we need to look at insects particuarly as tiny robots, the fact they are in a container doesnt even enter their heads.

[andy hughes]

Pipofski - I feel you are missing my point. I am aware of the food chain, and indeed I am a meat eater. My problem is not that insects are killed, but that it is done in an inhumane way, purely for entertainment - it has nothing at all to do with the food chain, aborignal people eat to stay alive, not to amuse each other on national TV - and that is why i suggest that the action is cruel - it is not eating that is cruel, it's the nonsensical reason for it that I find objectionable. I have a grip, thankyou.

[andy hughes]

BadBob - I feel it is unreasonable to judge a creature's worth of appropriate treatment based on its perceived place in the animal hierarchy. If cockroaches looked like kittens, there would be an outcry - as indeed there was when Lord Bocket dumped a goldfish in his champagne glass. During the next piece of film, the fish were mysteriously evacuated out of Lord B's line of sight. My point is, just because something looks unattractive, and has no apparent reaction to pain or fear in ways we understand, is no reason to eat it alive for the entertainment of the viewing public. It's the thin end of a wedge - what next? A little higher up the hierarchy are cocks and bears - 'I'm a celebrity let's bate a bear' anyone?

[BadBob]

I was agreeing with you to an extent. The question asked was it cruel treatment, i'd say for the reasons I mentioned its not cruel as such. That doesnt make it entertaining or right. But yeah I'm up for "Celebrity Bear Bate". What the people want the people get, millions of viewers cant be wrong can they? What about badger baiting where celebrities bring along their dogs to have a go at the badger, they could call it "Celebrity - I'm a badger get me outa here'

[Kim White]

we dont need no stinkin insects andy hughes what good are they? better than throwing Xtians to lions - isn't it?

[Socrates]

Just what we need - more politcally correct nonsense. Oh that spider might not like being in that jar! Give me a break.

[Hippy]

Not wishing to open another can of worms, BadBob said; "What the people want the people get, millions of viewers cant be wrong can they?" and it reminded me of that most cruel and destructive programme in living memory (or even before!), the programme the Nazis called the "Final Solution".

Millions of Jews, Gypsies, mentally defective people, Gays, and just downright non Germanic people were packed into forced labour, gas chambers and concentration camps. Oh how jolly that was because so many of the German people (despite what they might say today) went along with this with reactions ranging from quiet acquiescence to active and vocal support. Of course what the people want they should get; however unspeakable - not!

[rja211077]

jeez, only on this site could we jump from "I'm a Celeb" to the holocaust in the blink of an eye. Andy, I'm pretty much with you...i can't say it bothers me enough to take any action, but it is not quite right.

[BadBob]

I was writing a long response but I just say what I was saying in that instance was that if scene's of live insects being eaten was so shocking and cruel to the general population I'm sure this stuff would have been taken off air.

[pipofski]

bloody hippies. amazed at the supposed correlation between eating insects on telly and the holocaust. i wonder what it must be like inside of your head?

[andy hughes]

The debate continues - with a small degree of side-tracking. My point was, and is, the cruelty of ill-treating a living thing for the entertainment of a TV audience, based on its perceived revulsion quotient. We anthapomorphisise seal pups as cute and cuddly because they have soft fur and big eyes, and look cuddly. A seal pup would probably bite your fingers off if you tried to cuddle it, but the perception is that it is cruel to club them to death. It is, but that's not to do with the image they create for us. If you extend that logically, although a cockroach looks revolting, and squirms and wriggles, is no excuse to eat it alive for entertainment - and that's the point I was making. True, the majority of people care little, but that doesn't mean that those who do are PC, or hippies, or do-gooders - it's simply a moral point. Any more?

[BadBob]

I'll refer you back to my first point, and I do believe its a relevant one, the nervouse system of an insect is infinatly less complex than that of say a mammals. Therefore clubbing a seal to death results in prolonged pain and distress for the animal. Its often said that cockroaches can live for a number of days with no head and that shows the big difference between the 2. But anyway I know its not disgusting enough but would a steak eating contest be any better, shooting a bolt though a cows head is pretty barbaric.Moral's are a personal preference, eating live insects may not conform to your (or my) morals but its obviously not an issue to the viewers of IACGMOOH.

[davver]

I think hippy was jumping to the Holocaust not from eating insects but from 'what the people want they get'. Still, it is a bit unrealistic. I'm also thinking of another cruel and destructive programme under Stalin in the Soviet Empire. But I digress. What is wrong with eating insects? Apart from the fact that they wriggle in your mouth and go crunch in a such spine tingling way? It's just the same in my mind as killing fliesby clapping them in your hands. In fact that is worse (not that's it bad) because you don't eat flies. I think a lot of the activities I hear about on IACGMOOH (not having actually seen it myself) sound great because they are getting involved with the natural world. I'd rather these celebrities did challenges where they learn how to build a raft, or to overcome their fears of spiders/snakes/whatever, or to try what the Aborigines ate since time immemorial. I reckon they should have Ray Mears on. Make that man a Lord.

[coggles]

I personally think the most cruel thing was putting a bunch of 'celebs' in the middle of where lots of innocent creatures were and subjecting them to listening to all the inane drivel that most of the bores came out with. I should imagine most of those insects were pleased to be out of it.

[robber1]

I think I understand the Question here. To walk on insects unknowingly and kill them is one thing, but to search them out and and treat them as unliving creatures is different. I use insectacide in the garden to protect my plants. I will "brain" a moth with a news paper in the bedroom, and think nothing of it. But to go out to find them in order to kill them leaves me feeling morally uncomfortable. I enjoyed "Im a celeb", and I tried to not think about the moral aspect of the insects for entertainment, but it is good Q, asking if it is a civilised thing to do. If insects dont bother me, I should not wish to bother them.

[BadBob]

Great point and well put robber1. Having said that, given you can sustain yourself using vegtables, eating meat could be said to be a form of enjoyment. Your first point is a valid one but you dilute the argument when talking about "braining" a moth, would you "brain" a cat if it were getting on your nerves . I'm not trying to pick holes in your argument by the way. We must see this in context and that context is that aboriginal people of Austraila eat this sort of stuff, the program is about being in the wild away from civilization and they are simply doing what other people have done when living in that enviroment (yep its totally for entertainment value which I accept). I think if it were set in a country house and they were all in dinner jackets eating live insects then thats a whole different thing.