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Have I blown it? Puppy Toilet Training?
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I'm really annoyed with myself this morning. I made a big boo boo. I'm in the midst of crate training my 12 week old puppy Pebbles and it has been pretty slow progress. However the one positive was that she had never pee'd or poo'd in her crate. This morning I gave her breakfast, let her run around a bit then put her in the crate for a few minutes whilst I tidied up. Then I went off to the doctors. There I was sitting in the waiting room when I remembered I'd forgotten to take her outside after breakfast. I rushed back as soon as I could and let her out but sadly she had pee'd in the crate.
I'm really cheesed off at myself. Have I blown it? Will this put us back to square one?
By the way, I tried puppy pads first and hate to say it, Wolfgang - you were right they are a bad idea!! She still thinks its ok to go indoors hence the crate training. We bought her a lovely new crate the right size for her to stand up, sit down, turn round and lie down in. Its pretty slow progress and I'm worried this wil make things even worse.
Suzi
I'm really cheesed off at myself. Have I blown it? Will this put us back to square one?
By the way, I tried puppy pads first and hate to say it, Wolfgang - you were right they are a bad idea!! She still thinks its ok to go indoors hence the crate training. We bought her a lovely new crate the right size for her to stand up, sit down, turn round and lie down in. Its pretty slow progress and I'm worried this wil make things even worse.
Suzi
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No1 Dont keep your animal in a crate. No2 put plenty of newspapers over the floor.No3 praise your pet even when clearing up (difficult I know). Give the pet access to the outside as soon as you come in and strongly praise any efforts they make outside.gradually remve paper off the floor towards the door.Remember pets do not want to foul their own housing,at first they are just like babies.Do not be harsh but praise for all that they do well.Do not beat them because they are answering natures call,with a little percerverance you will be blessed with a house trained pet.
I know a lot of people use crate training. Personally I am totally against it.
I have always used the method that paulk1 suggests and always been successful. There will be some accidents because little ones have immature bladders, but as Paul says they don't like to be dirty and they soon learn. Puppies need to be let out often, but will gradually need to be let out less and less frequently.
I have always used the method that paulk1 suggests and always been successful. There will be some accidents because little ones have immature bladders, but as Paul says they don't like to be dirty and they soon learn. Puppies need to be let out often, but will gradually need to be let out less and less frequently.
I must say I'm finding so much conflicting advice really confusing. I spent quite a long time on the internet last night reading up about this subject. It all seemed to be advocating crate training. Also lots of bad press for puppy pads or paper.
I guess there is more than one way to skin a cat. To be honest I quite like the crate training as, when I do have leave the puppy, I know she is safe and cozy in her little den and I do not need to worry what she is up to. Also I have an older dog and although he is good with her, I would not be happy to leave them alone together as yet.
I don't leave her often as, with the crate, I can take her in the car and into the office (I work for myself) then home again in the car. So its a good method for me. When I do leave her its for short period, no longer than a couple of hours.
She gets plenty of time out of the crate too and meets loads of people at work. She has the older dog to play with when at home and is in our room (in her crate) at night.
I never smack her or punish her in any way for mistakes other than a firm NO if I catch her in the act, as this would be cruel and wouldn't achieve anything anyway.
I just wish I knew the quickest way to do this. I don't have a room to confine her in except the conservatory which would be too hot - the house is open plan. I do value my carpets and would rather not have paper spread about everywhere really as I also have cats and don't want then starting to use the paper (which happened with the pads).
I don't remember it being this hard last time :-(
I guess there is more than one way to skin a cat. To be honest I quite like the crate training as, when I do have leave the puppy, I know she is safe and cozy in her little den and I do not need to worry what she is up to. Also I have an older dog and although he is good with her, I would not be happy to leave them alone together as yet.
I don't leave her often as, with the crate, I can take her in the car and into the office (I work for myself) then home again in the car. So its a good method for me. When I do leave her its for short period, no longer than a couple of hours.
She gets plenty of time out of the crate too and meets loads of people at work. She has the older dog to play with when at home and is in our room (in her crate) at night.
I never smack her or punish her in any way for mistakes other than a firm NO if I catch her in the act, as this would be cruel and wouldn't achieve anything anyway.
I just wish I knew the quickest way to do this. I don't have a room to confine her in except the conservatory which would be too hot - the house is open plan. I do value my carpets and would rather not have paper spread about everywhere really as I also have cats and don't want then starting to use the paper (which happened with the pads).
I don't remember it being this hard last time :-(
It's slightly worrying ....
instead of crating the poor little thing ... play with her.... and then get her out in the garden, dogs are pack animals ... bunging them in a crate is about as bad as it gets -
eat then punish ... I don't think so.
you feed any baby ... and about 20 or so minutes later there is an avalanche of s**t.... by watching - you'll get the timing.
the interval increases ... and widdle = walkies is a connection that dogs love.
dogs are like kids ... for the first weeks ... they just don't understand (don't forget ... mum feeds them and then licks then untill they do their thing) .... when they are a little older ... part of begging for food from the adults involves submitting ... which involves widdling - so they are naturally empty by the time food swells their stomach.
then the penny will drop - she'll want to please you ... so tons of praise - the reward is being outside .... with you and if a ball is involved .... wohooo.
I have literally run down the stairs with a pup playing at being a portable fountain ... just so that he could finish the deed outside .... (and thus get his reward) once he was physically able to hold on ... he would go to great lengths to earn his ball.
what you're going to end up with is a dog that submits to you rather than being put in a crate ... and dogs (esp bitches) do that by widdling everywhere.
you have to make it fun - but more important ... she has to want to please the leader ... not her equal
instead of crating the poor little thing ... play with her.... and then get her out in the garden, dogs are pack animals ... bunging them in a crate is about as bad as it gets -
eat then punish ... I don't think so.
you feed any baby ... and about 20 or so minutes later there is an avalanche of s**t.... by watching - you'll get the timing.
the interval increases ... and widdle = walkies is a connection that dogs love.
dogs are like kids ... for the first weeks ... they just don't understand (don't forget ... mum feeds them and then licks then untill they do their thing) .... when they are a little older ... part of begging for food from the adults involves submitting ... which involves widdling - so they are naturally empty by the time food swells their stomach.
then the penny will drop - she'll want to please you ... so tons of praise - the reward is being outside .... with you and if a ball is involved .... wohooo.
I have literally run down the stairs with a pup playing at being a portable fountain ... just so that he could finish the deed outside .... (and thus get his reward) once he was physically able to hold on ... he would go to great lengths to earn his ball.
what you're going to end up with is a dog that submits to you rather than being put in a crate ... and dogs (esp bitches) do that by widdling everywhere.
you have to make it fun - but more important ... she has to want to please the leader ... not her equal
I do play with her, so does my son and my husband and our older dog. She goes for 2 walks each day round a lovely big field with lots of other dog walkers to meet. But my point is who do I go with? The advocates of crate training - who seem to think their method is the only way - or the other side who think their way is. And as I said I never punish her - shes a baby - and yes I have 2 grown up sons so I have been there with toilet training before. I take her outside after meals, after playing and at hourly intervals and when she goes, she gets loads of praise and fuss. Shes very much loved and part of the family. Just trying to do the best for her and us. So why worrying?...
I don't think that you've blown it. A lot of the time the things we do don't make sense to our dogs (or our other pets) so persevere with the housetraining, this was just a silly mistake, you'll both get over it. It sounds as if the crate training is working for you so far & of course once she is reliably trained there will be no need to use it. Don't lose faith in yourself. You have picked a perfectly valid method for the reasons you decided on - stick with it. She may be taking a long time but you'll get there - good luck.
I am really against crate training too, and I have always had a puppy house trained day and night by two weeks without the need for a crate. One bitch never did anything in the house when I bought her home at 8 weeks, and she was certainly not house trained by the breeder before I had her. Most of the others got the general idea within a few days, although did have the odd accident.
If you take your puppy out after eating, when waking, when walking round purposefully, sniffing etc and every hour in between, you wont have many accidents. I always try to leave the back door open so they have access to the garden too.
Good luck.
If you take your puppy out after eating, when waking, when walking round purposefully, sniffing etc and every hour in between, you wont have many accidents. I always try to leave the back door open so they have access to the garden too.
Good luck.
crate .... dog .... dogs hate being alone - it sounds like someone is trying to apply the "let them cry" technique.
my dad spoke dog
He did some really extreme dog training - military, police and sniffer.
some of the dogs were deemed so dangerous they were destroyed at the end of their working life ....
.... but with only one exception they absolutely loved him and he was never bitten
he always said that
the common technique is play ... only a short burst but very enthusiastic - (showcat is right ... dogs understand so little of what we do) ... but they are bouncy ... and they understand that - dogs bite or nip ... and they understand that ... so praise them enthusiastically - instead of punishing them ... "nip" immediately when they do something wrong ... not physically just nudge them with your leg ... and spit chhht at them ... if you do it gently but firmly ... they cower like a dog ... not like a cur in fear.
The worst tactic of all ...is to ignore them
personally ... feed
play for a bit ... then take the mood down.
then when she does what she needs to OUTSIDE ... you go native .... bounce ... praise - then give her a reward (something she has to give back - like a ball - whatever it is should only be used when she does something good)
when she does something you don't want ... "nip her"
if it's really bad ... "nip her" then ignore her - turn away - and don't peep - let her come to you.
12 weeks is still young ... but she should be making a bolt for the door (if she misses that's sort of acceptable)
she should also sit lie down and wait.
the rest of it will follow - It's apparent that you care ... and I'm sure that the other techniques work - given enough effort.
my dad always said there was no effort involved the way he did it ...
my dad spoke dog
He did some really extreme dog training - military, police and sniffer.
some of the dogs were deemed so dangerous they were destroyed at the end of their working life ....
.... but with only one exception they absolutely loved him and he was never bitten
he always said that
the common technique is play ... only a short burst but very enthusiastic - (showcat is right ... dogs understand so little of what we do) ... but they are bouncy ... and they understand that - dogs bite or nip ... and they understand that ... so praise them enthusiastically - instead of punishing them ... "nip" immediately when they do something wrong ... not physically just nudge them with your leg ... and spit chhht at them ... if you do it gently but firmly ... they cower like a dog ... not like a cur in fear.
The worst tactic of all ...is to ignore them
personally ... feed
play for a bit ... then take the mood down.
then when she does what she needs to OUTSIDE ... you go native .... bounce ... praise - then give her a reward (something she has to give back - like a ball - whatever it is should only be used when she does something good)
when she does something you don't want ... "nip her"
if it's really bad ... "nip her" then ignore her - turn away - and don't peep - let her come to you.
12 weeks is still young ... but she should be making a bolt for the door (if she misses that's sort of acceptable)
she should also sit lie down and wait.
the rest of it will follow - It's apparent that you care ... and I'm sure that the other techniques work - given enough effort.
my dad always said there was no effort involved the way he did it ...
There seems to be a lot of confusion over what 'crate training' actually is. I always use a puppy pen, which is not a small crate, but mesh panels measuring about six feet by four feet, open topped. I put newspaper at one end and a bed at the other. There are toys, bones and chews available at all times. The pup(s) are able to move about and play, eat, sleep and wee in their pen on the paper if they need to. They are let out regularly to play and socialise, but they then go back in their pen so they are safe and secure. They are let out in the garden often and always after feeding, playing and waking up, but have no fear of weeing on their paper if they need to although this happens less and less as the time goes on and they can physically hold it for longer.
I use smaller crates for transporting in the car, and all my dogs travel in them either singly or in twos or threes (been to Paignton this weekend and we had nine dogs in the vehicle and three people). All were in cages for the journey and slept in them overnight, but were all given lots of exercise at the show and where we stayed. There is no way we could have managed to take all those dogs if they were lose in the car and could not have taken them in to where we were staying. Alto at the show they have their cages on their benches so they are safe and have somewhere to switch off and rest between classes.
I cannot contemplate life without dog cages, and my dogs love them, they are their own den, which they happily go into if the doors are left open.
I use smaller crates for transporting in the car, and all my dogs travel in them either singly or in twos or threes (been to Paignton this weekend and we had nine dogs in the vehicle and three people). All were in cages for the journey and slept in them overnight, but were all given lots of exercise at the show and where we stayed. There is no way we could have managed to take all those dogs if they were lose in the car and could not have taken them in to where we were staying. Alto at the show they have their cages on their benches so they are safe and have somewhere to switch off and rest between classes.
I cannot contemplate life without dog cages, and my dogs love them, they are their own den, which they happily go into if the doors are left open.
lol
Lan ... I think it's you who are misunderstanding my objection ... it's not the size of the "crate" .... it's the crate
the seclusion - and the exclusion. Dogs naturally spend time on their own ... my last one liked a radius of about 150 yards ... which was unfortunate 'cause he rarely was able to enjoy his freedom (sheep country). But he always came back ... when either he (or I) wanted.
It's ok in a car the potential projectile element needs to be excluded ... and even a slow learner knows that the price payed generally results in lots of new places to explore.
but again ... a pup needs constant contact (or at least to know it could) ... a safe den has a mum in it ... almost constantly and always within "yipping distance" ... socialisation is done by mum ... not by a box of pups deciding who is boss amongs themselves. they learn to dominate each other - but to please mum ... and eventually the other pack members ....
we take them out of a natural environment ... and they remain pups for the rest of their lives ....
Lan ... I think it's you who are misunderstanding my objection ... it's not the size of the "crate" .... it's the crate
the seclusion - and the exclusion. Dogs naturally spend time on their own ... my last one liked a radius of about 150 yards ... which was unfortunate 'cause he rarely was able to enjoy his freedom (sheep country). But he always came back ... when either he (or I) wanted.
It's ok in a car the potential projectile element needs to be excluded ... and even a slow learner knows that the price payed generally results in lots of new places to explore.
but again ... a pup needs constant contact (or at least to know it could) ... a safe den has a mum in it ... almost constantly and always within "yipping distance" ... socialisation is done by mum ... not by a box of pups deciding who is boss amongs themselves. they learn to dominate each other - but to please mum ... and eventually the other pack members ....
we take them out of a natural environment ... and they remain pups for the rest of their lives ....
Well in answer to all the answers, last night we had our first poop and pee free evening. Pup was going to the door and asking to go out. I think she cottoned on to the fun aspect as well. she gets to go out and have a sniff round and go wee and get a fuss and come back in. Feeling a lot more confident that its starting to work. and in answer to troll ... well in an ideal world we could spend all day with the pup and all would be well. But most of us need to work. My pup is perfectly happy in her little den about 2 feet away from me as I work and sleeps contentedly most of the day. I let her out for a wee etc and if anyone comes in the office they invariably make a fuss of her. Thanks Lankeela and Showcat for the boost for my chosen method which I am now more confident about.
hi Suzi,i am so pleased your method is working and what Lankeela has described is exactly what I have been planning to do for the past 10 wks whilst waiting for my pup to be ready to leave her mum and litter (my breeder prefers them to leave between 10 and 12 wks) . After reading the initial answers to your post I totally panicked and decided that everyone would think I was a monster for using this method. Everyone I have spoken to ( and that's a lot) said your method was good and I agreed. Now I have read the last few answers I am reassured (and hope you are too!) Roll on Saturday,Lottie the little black Lab will be at my house....at last! And I for one cannot wait! Good luck with your little one. Sounds like you are definitely getting there.
which do you think made the biggest impact ... the play or the crate?
Given what you've said ... a friend who is an RSPCA inspector has ead through this ... and while you aren'r actually doing anything wrong .... she says that given your apparent circumstances - you wouldn't be allowed a rescue dog.
as for some people working .... I'm one of the oppressed masses (as is my wife) .... did I mention I don't have a dog at the moment ... it wouldn't be fair ...
Given what you've said ... a friend who is an RSPCA inspector has ead through this ... and while you aren'r actually doing anything wrong .... she says that given your apparent circumstances - you wouldn't be allowed a rescue dog.
as for some people working .... I'm one of the oppressed masses (as is my wife) .... did I mention I don't have a dog at the moment ... it wouldn't be fair ...
We all have different methods, I have found no reason to use a crate for a puppy in the past, and doubt I ever will, but good luck with whatever method you use.
I lost the will to live halfway through 'trolls' first post, and it isnt surprising to learn that he/she doesnt even own a dog!
Cant understand the last one though, why on earth would the RSPCA refuse to give suzi a Rescue dog?!
I lost the will to live halfway through 'trolls' first post, and it isnt surprising to learn that he/she doesnt even own a dog!
Cant understand the last one though, why on earth would the RSPCA refuse to give suzi a Rescue dog?!
ACtheTroll: Read the question properly! She takes the pup into work with her and it sleeps a couple of feet away from her all day!!!! And is in the bedroom at night!! As for your father training military dogs that ended up their lives being put to sleep as they were so aggressive (presumably they were kennelled all their lives, never in a family home) - how does that compare to house training a pet puppy?
We all know how good the RSPCA are at rehoming dogs! Not!
suzi, it sounds like your method of training is working fine, 12 weeks old is still a baby and Pebbles is still learning about the big wide world out there! Remember the basic rule for the age of a dog is 7:1, so when Pebbles is one year old she will be equivalent to a 7 year old human. So around now she is something like a 2 year old.
Like humans all dogs are different - some take a bit longer than others to learn things like house training etc.
Sounds like you are doing a great job so far - how many pups get that well socialised/cared for? Keep up the good work and you will be well rewarded with a loving, faithful companion.
We all know how good the RSPCA are at rehoming dogs! Not!
suzi, it sounds like your method of training is working fine, 12 weeks old is still a baby and Pebbles is still learning about the big wide world out there! Remember the basic rule for the age of a dog is 7:1, so when Pebbles is one year old she will be equivalent to a 7 year old human. So around now she is something like a 2 year old.
Like humans all dogs are different - some take a bit longer than others to learn things like house training etc.
Sounds like you are doing a great job so far - how many pups get that well socialised/cared for? Keep up the good work and you will be well rewarded with a loving, faithful companion.
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