Any mechanics out there, New Timing belt slipped.

[gasman]

I had posted this in LAW and another member suggested I post it in here instead. Mrs Gas took her car in for a service, a new timing belt and an MOT test. She was informed although unbeknowned to me that they recommend changing the whole kit (belt and idler etc..)and not just the timing belt, but she declined thinking the extra �120 was far too much money on top of the cost of the timing belt aswell, and thought that the garage was trying it on with a woman so to speak, and trying to con more money etc...Any-how to cut a long story short the car whislt on the ramp undergoinig MOT testing procedures suffered major mechanical failure the new timing belt apparently slipped whist under high revs checking the emmisions, and this was (they say) because the whole kit was not changed and they are not responsible for it. Yet they took into there possesion a really good reliable car that has never been a problem or let us down and we now have a car sat on some ramp with only half an engine in it now, and a very poorly cylinder head. Any advice is most appreicieated as this could potentually run in to the thousands ��� Should i have to pay in full or should they have inspected the idler etc as a standard proceedure and made a decision as to carry on or refuse to do the work unless the whole kit was changed ??? I have negotiated a loan car for the time been and to pay half the bill �508. In you're oppinion have I been had or is this fair? Can they make me pay in full !! (too many questions) this is doing my head in arrgghhhhh !!!!

[dannywells]

you really should have had the tensioner changed at the same time - if they advised that you should have it - i suppose you could question what garage would do the work even after you said to only fit the belt - but the crux of the matter is you said fit it without the other components that they said you should have.
learn a lesson and move on

[gasman]

You are quite right dannywells but bear in mind they asked my wife not me and she was uncomfortable and did not really have a clue what they were on about . They never explained the concequences or anything and she was feeling intimidated and felt they were trying to make her confused and creating more work etc... I would never have taken on a repair job on a boiler or heating system and only do half a job, surley they should not have done the work knowing the potential damaged that could occour or at least have made her feel more comfortable and fully aware by explaining the importance & consequencies and ask her to seek independant advice before accepting her decision and ignorance to correct proceedure and practices.

[Toureman]

The garage, as you say, should have explained how crucial it is to change the tensioner at the same time as it would have had to last another 40000 miles or whatever the cambelt servicing mileage is.

It was bad practise to just go ahead and not renew it.

When doing an MOT the garage is responsible for the condition of the car and should not have tested it if they thought it might damage the car, you could go down that route to get them to pay for the repair in full.

[dannywells]

the poster doesn�t say if the MOT garage was the same as fitted the cambelt - either way the MOT is separate to the cambelt change and revving the engine is part of the emissions check, it will not damage the engine unless it has a fault - which is not the responsibility of the MOT centre

[gasman]

The MOT testing station is seperate two units down on the same trading estate.

[woodchopper]

In my experience with timing belts ( vauxhalls ) it is better to chage the tensioner at the same time as the belt and if it requires a belt at around 100k get the water pump ( if driven by the timing belt ) changed as well as the bearings in it don't last forever.

[Mr_T_rules]

FACT.
the timming belt can be sent bact to the manufacterer, the manufacturer can tell what caused the fault, if the garage offered you the full kit and you declined there is not much more they could have done, however i have dealt with well over 30 claims involving timming belts, only on was ever tested and found to be a manufacturer fault, 99% are down to fitment error. timming belt makers spend thousands on testing equipment so they dont get stung every time a mechanic fits a belt incorrectly. demand that the belt is tested and that you are furnished with the report, this can take time, but the more you shout the shorter time you would have to wait. I know for a fact that you could have a report back within a week. the makers of the belt will provide proof to substansiate the outcome.
plus, just because the garage said that the car was on the mot bay when it happened dont just believe what they say.
chances are the belt was not fitted properly, and failed as soon as they started the car.Ensure you get the name of the motor factor that supplied the belt so you can pester them to hurry the report.
hope this helps
i hope this helps.

[Mr_T_rules]

i forgot,
if it turns out the tensioners or idlers were at fault you lose, if its a fitment fault they pay.

[__LEE__]

well... any news?

[Stu Dent]

Hi Gasman, it was me who advised you to take this from the law pages to the motoring pages.

I said I'd ask my brother-in-law (until recently an AA patrolman with 18 years experience). He has confirmed much of what has been written on here by the mechanics.

In a timing belt service you (should) replace the belt, tensioners, and in some cases (depending on how the belt is driven), the water pump. As I understand it, it is these other components that comprise the 'kit'. My B.I.L agrees with others on here that it is best practice to replace the belt & kit together., and that it would be best to refuse to do the work if asked to fit the belt only. Furthermore, he says many repairers actually follow this procedure. He also says he has seen scores of new timing belt slips/failures fitted without the new kit being fitted.

All in all, he feels the garage have made a more than reasonable offer. Fair enough - if the garage did what they were asked to!

On the legal side, I still advise (much like Mr T) to test the information the garage have given you. What do trading standards think - was it a 'new' timing belt? Was it ever fitted? If so, was it defective, or was the problem due to the old kit?

If the garage didn't do the work they agreed to do they are in breach of contract. The remedy is damages -- actual + consequential. If they did what was asked, take the offer and put it down to experience.

Best of luck!

[tomtech]

years ago i used to fit just the belt if thats what the customer wanted, and i was very lucky to have no comebacks. nowadays i always fit the complete kit regardless. if anyone asks for just the belt i will not do the job. most customers are quite understanding if they are told the dangers of just fitting the belt. the higher cost of fitting a full kit totally outways the cost of a head rebuild. as for the mot you have no chance, it quite clearly states that any vehicle in for the mot should be in good serviceable order due to the high revs used in the emissions test. if the belt fails during the test that is down to you and not them.your only chance is to claim against the garage if you can prove the belt was not fitted properly. but you were offered the chance to have the whole kit fitted and you declined. i really dont think you have a case.

[gasman]

Many thanks to everyone here for you're advice and suggestions. Both the gagage and I feel that the whole affair could have and should have been approached in a different manner. I have paid for the MOT, the full service and all the material's used and the garage stood the cost of a second MOT and the labour charges for mending the engine we are both glad of a mutual agreement. I picked it up today and It cost me �375 in the end and hopefully trouble free motoring for a few more years.

[Stu Dent]

Goodstuff gasman, #375 is a good result for the damage likely caused by a defective timing belt.