A Modest Proposal

[sunny-dave]

I was mildly irritated (OK - spitting tacks) to read a statement in this article

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2324671/Migrant-exodus-fruit-fields-send-prices-soaring-Romanians-soon-free-jobs.html

that "the way the benefits system works meant a person working long hours in a field could receive as little as £100 extra per month".

That is a fundamentally wrong way of looking at the income from a job versus the income for not working - but I have actually had it said to me by someone I offered a job to - "you are expecting me to work for 15p per hour" (being the net difference between working and doing nowt).

So - given that there are loads and loads of jobs which will never get done in this country because we can't afford to pay people to do them (just look at the state of crumbling infrastructure and general untidiness of green spaces in towns and litter about the roadside everywhere for instance) - I have a modest proposal :

For every person in receipt of state benefits, we divide the gross amount of benefit by the current minimum wage and they are then required to do that number of hours of 'useful work for the community' - up to a maximum of 37 hours per week.

Obviously not applying to people on any form of incapacity benefit, and also with allowances made for people who are working part-time already.

I suspect people can pick a lot of holes in it - but in essence it doesn't seem unfair?

[jno]

you're expecting me to do advanced arithmetic for nowt?

[cazzz1975]

wouldn't the councils be more likely to sack the people who currently do a lot of these jobs in favour of the cheap labour?

[sunny-dave]

You could benchmark everything first - but yes, there is a danger of it removing 'real jobs' and that would have to be worked through.

[ummmm]

Well it would depend if it's the people who have used benefits as a career choice or the ones who have used it as a safety net. The latter are probably looking for jobs.

[cazzz1975]

wasnt this one of the issues with "workfare" where big companies were not hiring staff because they were being supplied with jobseekers every two weeks?

[sunny-dave]

Agreed ummmm - perhaps it shouldn't kick in for the first few months?

[Octavius]

So would those doing community service for their criminal misdemeanours have to start breaking rocks again?

[ummmm]

I don't see why they can't look at someones work history

[Answerprancer]

The theory is that people on benefits (other than sickness/disability etc) are supposed to be "actively seeking employment" so if they are made to spend 37 hours a week litter picking, they are not going to have time or energy to seek properly paid work. When I was signing on, I would have been happy to do an 'appropriate' amount of 'community servic'e for my £60 ie. about ten hours p/w (roughly in line with the NMW). Wouldn't that make better sense?

[chrisgel]

It's a good idea in principle Dave and the only reservation I would have is that the administration and implementation of such a scheme might end up costing more than the value of the work being done.
Other than that I can't see what realistic objections could be raised.

[woofgang]

I could also see it ending up as being "make work" like the old workhouses because much of the community work that needs doing requires a skillset.

[woofgang]

dave did you choose the title of you question because of the Defoe Paper of the same name?

[craft1948]

Didn't that girl who was being 'forced' to do some hours shelf-stacking, or something she considered demeaning in order to keep her JSA, win her case at a tribunal?

[sunny-dave]

Possibly I was being a bit naughty woofgang - I suspected that it wouldn't be universally popular even if logically based :)

[sunny-dave]

AP - I was suggesting exactly what you said - appropriate hours for the benefit received up to a *maximum* of 37 hours.

[Answerprancer]

I re-read your post and worked that out. That'll teach me to read peoples' posts too quickly :-)

[sunny-dave]

That's tricky Octavius - I can see the 'equating joblessness with crime' headlines if similar work is done :+(

[ummmm]

Craft, she was already doing voluntary work whilst job hunting.