ChatterBank2 mins ago
ball park figure
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"Ball Park Figure" God I hate that expression, we British are not American so why on earth would we refer to something so obviously American.
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Consider this the hand-out (Americanism) to follow the lecture...
It never ceases to amaze me how British people constantly whine about American words and phrases being used here. They frequently do this even when the word/phrase was coined right here in the UK! If it sounds as if it might be American, it is condemned. For instance, at the end of the day, meaning in the final analysis, is British, not American, as many suppose.
British English is awash with Americanisms, as I said earlier, but - what some people seem to be unaware of - there are multitudes of other such words/phrases that we have not adopted. Why the difference? The reason is simple enough...we take on those things which catch our imagination or which enough of us find useful and reject those which don't!
There's no denying that 24/7, for example, is briefer and catchier than all day every day, so we've happily added it to our repertoire. And why not? That's not to say you can't go on saying all day every day if you want to.
Here are ten words and ten phrases created in the USA, most of which I'd be prepared to bet most of us - including yourself, Camioneur - have happily used...
airline, babysitter, checklist, commuter, ditch (abandon), gimmick, high-brow, laser, raincoat, stunt.
Bank on (rely), bark up the wrong tree, hit the headlines, hold down (a job), hold your horses (wait), in the doghouse (in trouble), junk food, pull no punches, stay put, up for grabs.
And that's barely scratching the surface of our debt to Americans' verbal creativity. If you yourself don't like any given coinage such as ball park figure, don't use it, but it is perfectly clear that enough of us do like it, otherwise you wouldn't be seeing/hearing it often enough for it to annoy you.
It never ceases to amaze me how British people constantly whine about American words and phrases being used here. They frequently do this even when the word/phrase was coined right here in the UK! If it sounds as if it might be American, it is condemned. For instance, at the end of the day, meaning in the final analysis, is British, not American, as many suppose.
British English is awash with Americanisms, as I said earlier, but - what some people seem to be unaware of - there are multitudes of other such words/phrases that we have not adopted. Why the difference? The reason is simple enough...we take on those things which catch our imagination or which enough of us find useful and reject those which don't!
There's no denying that 24/7, for example, is briefer and catchier than all day every day, so we've happily added it to our repertoire. And why not? That's not to say you can't go on saying all day every day if you want to.
Here are ten words and ten phrases created in the USA, most of which I'd be prepared to bet most of us - including yourself, Camioneur - have happily used...
airline, babysitter, checklist, commuter, ditch (abandon), gimmick, high-brow, laser, raincoat, stunt.
Bank on (rely), bark up the wrong tree, hit the headlines, hold down (a job), hold your horses (wait), in the doghouse (in trouble), junk food, pull no punches, stay put, up for grabs.
And that's barely scratching the surface of our debt to Americans' verbal creativity. If you yourself don't like any given coinage such as ball park figure, don't use it, but it is perfectly clear that enough of us do like it, otherwise you wouldn't be seeing/hearing it often enough for it to annoy you.
It should be pretty clear that only people with time on their hands are available at midday to answer questions, but what the hey!
Perhaps you skimmed over the last three lines of my second paragraph. They read, "we take on those things...ie Americanisms...which catch our imagination or which enough of us find useful and reject those which don't!"
In other words, they - the Americans - came up with an idiom that appeals to us, because it caught our imagination, or at least enough of us to make it often heard here. So that was the answer to your 'Why?' query.
I'll leave it at that.
Perhaps you skimmed over the last three lines of my second paragraph. They read, "we take on those things...ie Americanisms...which catch our imagination or which enough of us find useful and reject those which don't!"
In other words, they - the Americans - came up with an idiom that appeals to us, because it caught our imagination, or at least enough of us to make it often heard here. So that was the answer to your 'Why?' query.
I'll leave it at that.
"airline, babysitter, checklist, commuter, ditch (abandon), gimmick, high-brow, laser, raincoat, stunt.
Bank on (rely), bark up the wrong tree, hit the headlines, hold down (a job), hold your horses (wait), in the doghouse (in trouble), junk food, pull no punches, stay put, up for grabs."
Now this is positively my final word on this! All the above might well be Americanisms as you choose to call them, I don't know and am not too bothered to be honest but there isn't one among them that is obviously American which was my point in the first place. Perhaps dog house might be an exception but the rest don't specifically refer to t'other side of "the pond" as does "ball park figure" We don't play baseball in the UK, well not much anyway and if we did we wouldn't call the venue a Ball park
No more, I rest!
Bank on (rely), bark up the wrong tree, hit the headlines, hold down (a job), hold your horses (wait), in the doghouse (in trouble), junk food, pull no punches, stay put, up for grabs."
Now this is positively my final word on this! All the above might well be Americanisms as you choose to call them, I don't know and am not too bothered to be honest but there isn't one among them that is obviously American which was my point in the first place. Perhaps dog house might be an exception but the rest don't specifically refer to t'other side of "the pond" as does "ball park figure" We don't play baseball in the UK, well not much anyway and if we did we wouldn't call the venue a Ball park
No more, I rest!
Another last gasp... certainly, Q requires no assistance in verbal or linguistic jousts, however, it seems to me that perhaps we Americans should be equally fauxoutraged at the incursion of British-isms with which we must up put .
For example, my personal all time favorite must be "sticky wicket"... nothing sounds so... well... English and has such conotations. Certainly, we play little, if any, cricket, but the term is used here regularly (Origin: Bell's Life in London, July 1882).
We see the use of Aubergine when the speaker undoubtedly means Eggplant, Kerb when the intent is curb, Snog for a rather passionate kiss and not to be overlooked, Cinema, when movie will do, thank you.
So, the current runs both ways, but truly sorry that you're so profoundly disturbed by the interchange whereas I find it, well... Charming, simply charming! Cheerio!
For example, my personal all time favorite must be "sticky wicket"... nothing sounds so... well... English and has such conotations. Certainly, we play little, if any, cricket, but the term is used here regularly (Origin: Bell's Life in London, July 1882).
We see the use of Aubergine when the speaker undoubtedly means Eggplant, Kerb when the intent is curb, Snog for a rather passionate kiss and not to be overlooked, Cinema, when movie will do, thank you.
So, the current runs both ways, but truly sorry that you're so profoundly disturbed by the interchange whereas I find it, well... Charming, simply charming! Cheerio!
Clanad, this is for you
How you have the nerve to talk about "British-isms" I really can't imagine. Your speak English, you don't speak American, as far as I'm aware American isn't a language. You cannot therefore adopt British-isms into the British language. If you;re merely going to pinch someone else's language you'll jolly well have to put up with the sticky wicket that comes with it.
How you have the nerve to talk about "British-isms" I really can't imagine. Your speak English, you don't speak American, as far as I'm aware American isn't a language. You cannot therefore adopt British-isms into the British language. If you;re merely going to pinch someone else's language you'll jolly well have to put up with the sticky wicket that comes with it.
CorbyLoo, this is for you
I don't see from any of the above a reference by Camioneur to the ORIGIN of the phrase "ball park" I don't know the origin of the word I admit and no doubt millions of others would say the same but I DO know that "ball park" refers to a baseball venue in the States which is what Cam said in the first place. Read the question properly!
I don't see from any of the above a reference by Camioneur to the ORIGIN of the phrase "ball park" I don't know the origin of the word I admit and no doubt millions of others would say the same but I DO know that "ball park" refers to a baseball venue in the States which is what Cam said in the first place. Read the question properly!
scaniavabis
Clanad does not speak British English, he/she will speak American English
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_English
A language is not permanently tethered to the place of its origin, it will evolve and new words influenced by the geographical location it is being used. This thread is about whether one phrase can be used in another location if it does not directly apply or seem appropriate.
Clanad does not speak British English, he/she will speak American English
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_English
A language is not permanently tethered to the place of its origin, it will evolve and new words influenced by the geographical location it is being used. This thread is about whether one phrase can be used in another location if it does not directly apply or seem appropriate.
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