working time directive- could it put lives at risk?

[redcrx]

the European Government is looking at withdrawing the UK (and other countries) rights to opt out of the working time directive.
This gives employees the opportunity to decide if they want to work more than the 48 hrs limit set by the european government.

This could affect hundreds of retained fire stations around the UK.

At present some firefighters work a 40 hour week with their main employer and are also on call to cover emergencies for up to 168 hours a week on top.

The new rules could mean that a firefighter could only work an extra 8 hours, training alone takes up 2-3 hours per week of that time.

What do you think, do you think the firefighters shouldnt be working more than the 48 hours or that the rules should be kept as they are, allowing the firefighters to be able to cover 24/7 in small towns and villages where retained cover is essential.

http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/news/Law -cut-cover/article-743636-detail/article.html

[JimmyCooper]

My mate is a fireman and when he is on night shift he spends his time playing pool or 5 a side then goes to bed!

Days off working as a painter and decorator using the ladders!!

[redcrx]

well he wont be able to do that. Anyway if hes a full timer he will probably be being paid a lot to sit and wait, they can only spend so much time drilling, training and doing paperwork.

but if the retained arent covering the small stations or at night (only big towns and cities have full 24hour manned stations) then whats the answer?

fully staffing all stations, 6 firfighters to each pump, ready for a call 24/7. just think how much council tax would increase to cover that?

the retained earn a small sum to be on call, they then get paid for hours worked. Not the salaries that the full timers get.

[redcrx]

and how can your mate be using the ladders? they are kept on the appliances? lol

[New Judge]

The EU approach to everything is that �one size fits all�. It takes no account of the practices in individual nations, no account of the particular circumstances that each nation has to deal with, and most importantly of all, no account of how individual nations choose to deal with those circumstances.

The Working Time Directive's approach to �on call� occupations is ridiculously rigid. It is unrealistic to suggest that sitting at home watching TV whilst on call as a retained firefighter constitutes �work�. Next in line will be lifeboat crews who, although volunteers, will probably be viewed in a similar light.

It would be ludicrous to suggest that every fire station is fully manned. I believe more than 50% of them operate - perfectly satisfactorily - using retained staff. To expect the public to pay for them to be fully manned is outrageous.

But this is just a small example of what membership of the EU entails � compliance with ridiculous and ill-thought out policies which our government signs up to without a thought or a murmur.

It is also typical of the way the EU works. Policies are enacted with individual member states being allowed to �opt out� because it does not suit their circumstances. (I believe 14 states have opted out of the Working Time Directive). However, these opt outs are only temporary (provided just to facilitate the introduction of the policy). Before long they are removed, and that�s that.

This is a perfect demonstration that the UK is not in control of its own affairs. Until it �opts out� (permanently) from the corrupt oppressive swindle that is the EU, it never will be.

[redcrx]

sleeping, shopping, sitting watching TV isnt the problem for the retained staff.
But some busy periods can see retained crew being called out twice a day, or for something like a thatch fire the crews are out for 6 hours at scene before someone takes over.

so one wheelie bin fire, an automatic fire alarm at some sheltered acommodation and a thatch fire in a week and thats it. They would be over their limits and grounded for a week?

its ridiculous that the European Government would think this wouldnt affect the firefighters, and of course other "on call" services.

I wonder if anyone agrees with what they are suggesting?

[New Judge]

The problem is, redcrx is that the European Government (whatever form that takes) does not think about much at all when it comes to considering the effect their policies have on individual people in member states.

I doubt that any of them who devised the policy had any idea that the UK depends on retained firefighters for more than 50% of its emergency cover. Nor that the Lifeboat Service depends entirely on volunteers, many of whom probably work at their regular jobs for up to (and probably beyond) the permitted 48 hours.

No. The idea is that no nation sate can secure an advantage over another by having a more flexible and responsive workforce. The only way that could be achieved was by this type of legislation. And, as usual, the UK will "gold plate" that legislation and enforce it rigorously, whilst other countries who do not like it will simply ignore it.

Don�t for one second believe that any thought was given beyond that.

For the purposes of your poll I do not agree with what they are suggesting. I do not agree with anything suggested by the EU Commissars because I belive they should have no part to play in the legislature of this country.

[redcrx]

great answers, new judge. I wish i could word my replies as well as you do :)

i did realise that you werent in favour from your first reply :)