Your thoughts on acupuncture please ?

[tamaris]

I have been having accupuncture weekly for a couple of months now, and I do not see any difference in my health issues, I was told they thought they could help me. I feel ready to give up.

[sandyRoe]

I can't see the point in it, either.

[LazyGun]

@ Tamaris

You may find the following article of interest tamaris. It was written in 2009 and published in the Mail Health section, and has a sceptic and a proponent of acupuncture arguing the relative merits.

From an evidence base, there is little or no evidence supporting the efficacy of acupuncture beyond the placebo effect. About the only areas where some effects may have been shown is in the treatment of lower back pain and possibly migraine type headaches.

I remain sceptical about its benefits..............

http://www.dailymail....oint-acupuncture.html

[daisya]

Lazy gun, I had no interest and was totally sceptical about acupuncture AND I don't like needles so I really don't think it was the placebo affect on me. I am beginning to think it is down to the person conducting the "treatment" rather than patient belief....though I haven't a clue I just know it worked for me and I was not convinced it would before hand nor had any expectation of it.

[tamaris]

That is so interesting and food for thought,many thanks

[tamaris]

I have been going to a walk in centre in the SE with a scale of from £15 -25 pounds a treatment, so it is available to all pockets, so they are not doing it for the money and they are all qualified there.

[starone]

A few years ago I could not walk with the pain in my hips. I tried acupuncture although I did not think it would do any good. After three sessions I was able to walk. So it did work with me but I have always been reluctant to recommend it because I do not think it works with everyone. It may be worth a try though, but you cannot get it on the NHS and it is probably prohibitively expensive if you haven't got much money.

[craft1948]

LazyGun I must disagree with that finding. The first time I was persuaded to try acupuncture was when I was literally non-stop crying with pain, which even the strongest non-prescription pain killers did not even touch. I was extremely sceptical about the procedure and was amazed when an hour later I was virtually pain free. Acupuncture can and does work for pain relief.

[tamaris]

Maybe it works better for pain then than say for example a bladder problem ?

[daisya]

Maybe that is the case then tamaris because I was in pain with the trapped nerve and it seems others are saying it relieved their pain. At least mine was on the NHS and I doubt I would have paid for it because I wasn't sure it would work and would be a waste of money.....

[Baldric]

My OH had treatment for a frozen shoulder a while back, made sure she was looking her best, when she got there the Acupuncturist was a blind man.
She swears by the treatment though, great success.

[tenrec]

tamaris are you constantly going to the loo? I ask this as my mum has a problem. Over a few years she trained herself to "not" go during the day with the result that now she still doesn't go during the day but can be out of bed quite a few times during the night. She is now training herself to go less at night and it appears to be slowly working down to a manageable 3 times a night. Hope this helps.

[starone]

I agree with craft. I did not think it would work and only tried it on my husband's insistence. I also thought it was all in the mind. There was no-one more surprised than me when I found I could walk again without the excruciating pain I was experiencing I shall always remember what the acupuncturist said the first time I went "I cannot cure what you have (osteo-arthritis) but I can alleviate the pain" and she did.

[jake-the-peg]

There have been a number of scientific studies on acupunctute.

In one some medical students were given proper training and some fake acupuncture training.

In others "Dummy" needles were used that did not puncture the skin

In both cases ther was not big difference between the control group and those getting "real" acupuncture.


However like all alternative medicine there is a really strong placebo effect. That doesn't mean it's imagined, placebos stimulate dopamine production in your head and that has a real effect - it's just you can't rely on it and it works better for some people better than others.

And as Craft says it's particularly good for pain especially long term pain.

But if you're not finding that it's helping you I'd doubt you'd suddenly see an effect now

[LazyGun]

Well, with respect Craft, anecdotal evidence does not count for much as objective evidence, although obviously for you it will seem different.

Acupuncture has been around and available for hundreds of years - possibly thousands. In all that time, there have been no large scale, properly controlled trials of acupuncture that prove its worth, beyond the acknowledged placebo effect -and remember, the more ritual, the more equipment involved, the greater the placebo effect.

Nor, in all those hundreds of years, has anyone shown a plausible mechanism by which acupuncture can actually work.

Indeed, there have been several trials comparing acupuncture using real needles alongside a group of patients receiving therapy via a sham needle - and the results for both groups are the same.The NHS do actually offer acupuncture for interested parties, but for very specific circumstances - chronic lower back pain - and this is because there some evidence beyond placebo, and is an alternative to the current drug regimens. Doesn't really say a great deal though, because our current drug therapies are pretty useless in treating the same condition, to be honest ;)

Now, if it works for you, then that's perfectly fine, and anyone is entitled to spend there money however they want with respect to their healthcare - but people should be aware that there is little evidence to support its efficacy.

[daisya]

In my opinion, even if this or anything has a placebo effect and it works then surely it's good because if it has the desired affect that's all you need. Pain relief is always good if you can obtain it without drugs methinks.

[tamaris]

Tenrec, it mostly starts at night maybe 8-9 I keep going every few minutes,but other nights I dont have it there is rhyme or reason to it. Some nights I am awake until 5ish this morning, constantly back and forth to the loo, I wonder where it all comes from. Not too bad through the day occassionally it happens but it is more a night thing

[gness]

Agree with Craft. My daughter used acupuncture for migraine. About ten years ago I was in such lower back and leg pain I could only climb stairs by crawling. Ok at home but in a school of 200 kids a bit more difficult to say the least. Reluctantly tried acupuncture and the relief after one session was wonderful. It certainly wasn`t the placebo effect.
When I started to landscape my garden I had a couple of sessions in the early days and I can dig trenches, lay slabs and chop down trees with no help and no pain. I do credit acupuncture.
I would be reluctant to say a treatment didn`t work or that we imagined the pain relief if I hadn`t tried that treatment.
For a bladder problem 25 years ago I used a very different treatment and for that I don`t think I would use acupuncture as my first choice.
Maybe it`s horses for courses.

[LazyGun]

@Daisya - The thing is, the Placebo effect can be gained from conventional medicine too - so you get, in most cases at least, the benefits of the clinically proven active ingredient of the drug or intervention, -together with the placebo effect. A synergistic benefit, if you will.

Anyway, I don't want to get into a big argument about it. If it works for you, fine, but the evidence for its benefits are poor.

[tamaris]

gness what treatment did u use for your bladder prob ?

[jake-the-peg]

LazyGun - I guess you were typing as I was.

There is a plausible explanation which is placebo

I think the first studies relating placebo and physiological changes ( dopamine production) were done in Canada about 10 years ago.

Again definately something that works for some people for pain - wouldn't think it would be likely to help for going to the loo a lot.

Unfortunately acupuncture practicioners tend to oversell it and say it works for just about anything.