Mmr Question

[soapnumpty]

My daughter is just coming up for a year, so will be due for her MMR jab soon. I'm a bit worried about her having it, and just wondered what other people's thoughts are.

I know all the talk about a link to autism has since been disproven and the Doctor that started the debate has been struck off I believe, but it's still worrying me.

I was thinking of paying for her to have the three separate jabs but I've heard these aren't licensed for use in the UK.

I'm sure Sqad will be along and will say there is no risk and she should have the 3 in 1 jab. Am I right?

[belrec]

Don't think about it just do it. Having the jabs seperatly is not nesseccary.

THERE IS NO CONNECTION BETWEEN MMR AND AUTISM.

You child's health is the most important thing just get the MMR done. I have two children both have had all their jabs and no ill effects.

Did you not hear about the measles epidemic in Wales this year because parents had not had their children vaccinated?

[soapnumpty]

Yes of course. I know she has to have it done. I just don't know whether to have the three in one, or pay to have them done separately.

[Sqad]

\\\\I'm sure Sqad will be along and will say there is no risk and she should have the 3 in 1 jab. Am I right? \\\

You are mixing me up with LazyGun LOL....he would say there is no risk ( I think)

I would certainly have the 3 in i, but would say that the "risk" was exceedingly minimal.

If you are happy with that, then go ahead with the 3in1 if you still have concerns take the jabs separately.

[jim360]

The health risks from not having an MMR jab are far, far greater than any risks associated with not having it. And anyway all those possible risks -- at least the ones associated with Autism -- have been shown to have no basis. So while it's understandable that you worry there are no reasons to do so. But talk to your doctor about your concerns.

[woofgang]

Do you have a GP or health visitor who you trust?
No one is going to say that there is NO RISK with any vaccination or other treatment, its a question of deciding where the least risk is.

[LazyGun]

@Soap - If you are aware that the link to autism has been disproven, and the researcher responsible for creating that link has since been struck off the medical register, can you tell us what exactly it is that you are worried about?

You should be aware that any and all vaccinations carry a risk of side effects, ranging from the relatively common localised discomfort through to the more major, but extremely rare more debilitating side effects.

This risk factor applies to all vaccinations, whether it be the MMR vaccine or each individual vaccine separately. The advantages of taking the MMR vaccine are that your child needs less vaccinations in total, making compliance and hence protection better ( although again, you should be aware that having the vaccination does not automatically confer 100% protection), and cost - each separate vaccination will set you back £100 or so maybe, so going for single vaccines will be time consuming and costly.

There is another problem as well - it is my understanding that there are no available stocks of any mumps single vaccines available in the UK right now ( or at least, as of August 2013), so you could not get your child fully vaccinated against all 3 diseases via single vaccines anyway.

I am not at all sure why Sqad would assume I would say there is "no risk" associated with vaccination - there is always some risks of side effects - but all the evidence ( and there is lots and lots and lots of it) shows there is no correlation between developing Autism or Autism Spectrum Disorder as a consequence of receiving the MMR vaccine.

[yogasun]

Can understand your concern soap. I was worried to death when my daughter in law took our grand daughter for the jab. Luckily all was OK, there's always that niggling doubt, possibly unjustified, but there nevertheless.

[soapnumpty]

Thanks for your answers.it is the risk of autism that I was most concerned about. It may sound silly, but I also don't like the thought of overloading her with three illnesses in one go. It just seems a bit much.

I was debating having the jabs separately but if there is currently no mumps vaccination I wouldn't want to leave her unprotected.

Woofgang, I haven't found the health visitors to be that helpful in the past, and i didn't want to make a trip to my GP just to ask a question, they are busy enough. I'm bound to be at the Doctors for something in the next few weeks so I'll ask then.

Thanks all.

[jake-the-peg]

soapnumpty

The guy who suggested this supposed risk was struck off 3 years ago

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8700611.stm

The GMC said he'd acted "dishonestly and irresponsibly"

[Sqad]

Jake the Peg.

Just to keep a bit of balance on the OP, although I agree the point that you are making:


"The case did not investigate whether Dr Wakefield's findings were right or wrong, instead it focused on the methods of research."

That is also what the GMC said......

[LazyGun]

@ Sqad - Really? Trying to offer "balance" in this is not helpful or even valuable. The GMC might have focussed on his methodology as they rightly would, since it was all unethical or fraudulent, his basic premise -that the MMR vaccine correlated with the development of Autism and ASD has also been shown to be utterly without foundation through numerous studies in the decades or so since then.

What is there to defend? What is there to bring "balance" to ?

[EcclesCake]

Soapnumpty, Google Kassianos and MMR, for further reassurance.

[Sqad]

LazyGun....oh! dear.....I thought that after your holiday you would be in a relaxed and tolerant mood........;-)

JTP pointed out a quote from the GMC report and i pointed out another from that very same report..I am sorry if you din't approve.

[jake-the-peg]

I think that's splitting hairs

If your methods of research are "Dishonest and irresponsible" what sort of results are you going to get

[LazyGun]

@Sqad This is me being relaxed and tolerant ;) I just think you are trying to introduce false doubt into the topic.

For instance, you say that the GMC never ruled on Wakefields thesis. But that is not their job. When have they ever ruled on a thesis or a hypothesis? They are there to evaluate the professional conduct of Doctors, and Wakefields conduct was found to be - hmm, how shall we put it? sub-par? Or fraudulent and dishonest, to be more accurate.

To suggest that somehow Wakefield's thesis has not been challenged or not thoroughly disproven and debunked in the decade or so since his original work, simply because the GMC did not rule on it is an irrelevance.

[Sqad]

LazyGun..LOL...OK.
I am used to my comments being referred to as an irrelevance.............you tend to come on a bit strong at times...............

[soapnumpty]

Only just got round to reading your replies. I see what you are saying Sqad. Dr Wakefield was struck off because of the methods he used to gather his data, and not because the results were disproven.

The way I see it, there may be a risk of autism etc with the 3 in 1 jab, but the risk is minimal, and there are much greater risks from not having your children vaccinated.

One last question. If the separate vaccinations are imported from Switzerland, as one article said, and are not licensed for use in the UK, is this a concern? Is there a reason why they aren't licensed? I imagine Switzerland have pretty stringent checks. Would I be stupid to give my daughter the separate jabs if they aren't licensed in the UK?

[soapnumpty]

Just to add, I have read your previous posts on this subject Lazygun and Sqad and see you are both very knowledgable on the subject. I guess there is always going to be a debate about it, as people remember the negative reports in the press. It must drive GP's mad!

[LazyGun]

@Soap

"Only just got round to reading your replies. I see what you are saying Sqad. Dr Wakefield was struck off because of the methods he used to gather his data, and not because the results were disproven."

To be clear, Soap - Wakefield was struck off the medical register for fraud,unethical study design,and falsification of data plus a few other things.
His thesis - that the MMR vaccine could cause ASD has been disproven, with many many many papers and studies showing that there is no link, no causation in the decades since Wakefields published "research" - which was retracted by the Lancet which originally published, and disowned by the 11 co-authors on the paper.The GMC do not comment on hypotheses and theories, they never have.

I do want this to be crystal clear though - the only reason a causal link was proposed who between the MMR vaccine and ASD was Wakefield's single study, based upon just one case study of only 12 children, all selected with a view to bringing suit in the US, the work being paid for by the lawyer wanting to bring the class action. He has been struck off for fraud and malpractice, and his thesis has been refuted repeatedly by other researchers employing far more ethical and far more comprehensive studies and articles.

Now, having said all that- Vaccines can be used even if they are not licensed in the UK under a clinicians supervision, so if you are determined to go ahead with 3 separate vaccinations, that would be OK providing all 3 single vaccines are available in the UK. I had thought though that those clinics offering the single vaccines in the UK were unable to get hold of any Mumps vaccine right now, but I could well be wrong about that.

I hope it all goes well anyway, regardless of which route you take :)

[soapnumpty]

Thanks Lazygun. I guess what that study shows is that if you pick and choose your subjects well enough, you can make sure the results say what you want them to say.

I think I'll enquire about the three separate jabs, but if they aren't available ill go ahead with the 3 in 1.

Thanks all for your input.