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Suspended for Swearing - ?!!!
Hi,my husband works for an animal refuge shelter. There's all sorts going on at the moment, its all up in arms because of the management and they seem to get rid of people for no apparent reason. They employ lots of managers who then don't have authority to do anything and not enough kennel hands. It seems to be the case that they don't like being questioned about anything, even if its in the best interests of t.he animals. Once you open your mouth, your card is marked (I kid you not). Thats the background (short version!).
Today my husband was told that a dog he'd been working with to bring round (she'd had a bad start to life) was being transferred to the other site. Because the animal welfare person there doesn't have a clue and simply isn't bothered, he knows she won't get any help there and will simply be put to sleep. So on finding this out he was obviously annoyed and upset. He swore out loud (something like "I'm f**king out of here") and that was that. It then turns out there was a member of public nearby with one of the so called managers and the manager had heard my hubby swear. Don't know if the member of public did or was even bothered. By the way the public isn't allowed in until after lunch so there'd be no reason for hubby to think anyone was about apart from staff. A little bit later he gets told he's gonna get a disciplinary because of the swearing (he was swearing out loud, not actually at anybody). And then not long after that he gets told he's being suspended because of it and not to come back to work and to expect a letter! He left at that point, totally astounded and bemused.
He's never had any grievance problems before, he keeps his head down and gets the work done. He's never had a day off sick in the 3 years he's been there. He doesn't even take all of his holidays (they just disappear into the ether).
More to follow ...
Today my husband was told that a dog he'd been working with to bring round (she'd had a bad start to life) was being transferred to the other site. Because the animal welfare person there doesn't have a clue and simply isn't bothered, he knows she won't get any help there and will simply be put to sleep. So on finding this out he was obviously annoyed and upset. He swore out loud (something like "I'm f**king out of here") and that was that. It then turns out there was a member of public nearby with one of the so called managers and the manager had heard my hubby swear. Don't know if the member of public did or was even bothered. By the way the public isn't allowed in until after lunch so there'd be no reason for hubby to think anyone was about apart from staff. A little bit later he gets told he's gonna get a disciplinary because of the swearing (he was swearing out loud, not actually at anybody). And then not long after that he gets told he's being suspended because of it and not to come back to work and to expect a letter! He left at that point, totally astounded and bemused.
He's never had any grievance problems before, he keeps his head down and gets the work done. He's never had a day off sick in the 3 years he's been there. He doesn't even take all of his holidays (they just disappear into the ether).
More to follow ...
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Surely someone should have taken him to one side to have a word. If they wanted to be heavy handed then they could have given him a warning. But are they allowed to actually suspend him for something that trivial?
Just wondered what the legal position was. They're being funny with quite a lot of people. Another girl actually got a final warning (she's had numerous) for texting in sick rather than phoning in. But she didn't get suspended!!
Want to be fully armed with information for whatever they come back with in this letter!
Another question - if you're suspended is it usualy without pay? Totally ridiculous when he's done nothing wrong and other people get away with messing around and not feeding the dogs or looking after them etc.
Help!!
Just wondered what the legal position was. They're being funny with quite a lot of people. Another girl actually got a final warning (she's had numerous) for texting in sick rather than phoning in. But she didn't get suspended!!
Want to be fully armed with information for whatever they come back with in this letter!
Another question - if you're suspended is it usualy without pay? Totally ridiculous when he's done nothing wrong and other people get away with messing around and not feeding the dogs or looking after them etc.
Help!!
Not sure how you could go about this, but it sounds like the place needs to clear out of the managment. Is there is a Head office you can put your complaint to? Try the Citizens Advise Bureau. If it comes to a tribunal they could review your situation there. .This surely can't be good for the animals in their care. Hope it all works out for him.
No head office unfortunately but you're right about the management. They're already getting rid of one of them as lots of people went to the trustees and complained about this particular person as she was doing all sorts wrong (including fraud!!). She's working her notice and still seems to have a say. It was her sister who heard hubby and obviously went and "told on him" for some reason.
Well I did think the verbal then written warnings still applied but wanted confirmation. As I said they seem to try and get rid of people for any excuse but don't know if they think about it before they actually do anything (ie make sure THEY'VE got a leg to stand on).
Well I did think the verbal then written warnings still applied but wanted confirmation. As I said they seem to try and get rid of people for any excuse but don't know if they think about it before they actually do anything (ie make sure THEY'VE got a leg to stand on).
Has he got a contract and any company handbook etc...? If so, what does it say about disciplinary matters, offences, sanctions, procedure etc...
Any procedure and action should be fair and reasonable in the circumstances.
ACAS would be a good place to start for advice and they have guides such as a Code for disciplinary and grievances. They should be able to advise what rights he has, what should be done and how so he can raise issue if it isn't done properly They have a website with lots of information.
Make sure he keeps a written log of everything, dates, times, what was said by whom etc...
If he has a disciplinary hearing, he should be able to bring someone with him, well worth considering and planning ahead as to an appropriate person to take.
Any procedure and action should be fair and reasonable in the circumstances.
ACAS would be a good place to start for advice and they have guides such as a Code for disciplinary and grievances. They should be able to advise what rights he has, what should be done and how so he can raise issue if it isn't done properly They have a website with lots of information.
Make sure he keeps a written log of everything, dates, times, what was said by whom etc...
If he has a disciplinary hearing, he should be able to bring someone with him, well worth considering and planning ahead as to an appropriate person to take.
I agree with jenna, the ACAS website and information is excellent and unbiased. Re your question about suspension, it really does depend on his contract but at our place he would be suspended on full pay while the incident was being investigated.
I feel sorry for the dogs as well as your husband, sounds like they are getting a raw deal too.
I feel sorry for the dogs as well as your husband, sounds like they are getting a raw deal too.
Yes, it's a registered charity.
No sign of any handbook or anything like that. He said he might have signed a contract (honestly can't remember as there was so much to sign - but I don't think he has) but in any case he doesn't have a copy even if he has signed anything.
But is swearing out loud enough reason for suspension? A one off incident and one swear word used, not even a long rant and it wasn't directed at anyone? I swear at my computer at work most of the day when it plays up!
Just doesn't seem fair that others can get warnings for being off sick (always at weekends and following days off) yet he can do one thing "wrong" and gets suspended! Like I said it's all very political, you wouldn't believe what's gone on.
Yes the dogs are suffering but management don't actually care about that it seems. Hysterical hmm??!
No sign of any handbook or anything like that. He said he might have signed a contract (honestly can't remember as there was so much to sign - but I don't think he has) but in any case he doesn't have a copy even if he has signed anything.
But is swearing out loud enough reason for suspension? A one off incident and one swear word used, not even a long rant and it wasn't directed at anyone? I swear at my computer at work most of the day when it plays up!
Just doesn't seem fair that others can get warnings for being off sick (always at weekends and following days off) yet he can do one thing "wrong" and gets suspended! Like I said it's all very political, you wouldn't believe what's gone on.
Yes the dogs are suffering but management don't actually care about that it seems. Hysterical hmm??!
buffymad - think he should politely request a copy of his contract and a company handbook - put this in writing and keep a copy yourselves. don't get shirty (I know it's difficult) - then at least you'll know a bit more. There seems to be an awful lot of mismanaging and slackness here and it's going to take time to unravel. Also, your hubby doesn't appear to have read what he's signed which puts you at a disadvantage - you have to find this out (and Never sign anything without reading it thoroughly in future) - certainly if he's been there for three years he has rights - again I have to say that imo he has condoned certain proceedures by (for eg) not taking his holiday entitlement etc however, if you are to get any sort of result you have to get clear facts and not emotion to help your case. I'll be interested to know what happens - there are legal eagles on this site so I'm sure you'll soon get more answers.
Well when I started work I was given my contract to take away, read and sign. I'm pretty sure he'd remember if he'd signed one or not and nothing was ever brought home. He DID bring home a lot of papers to sign which he did read, but like I say that was all about health and safety and things like that.
Not sure that they'd have a company handbook. What would happen if he requested a copy of his contract and they then realised there wasn't one in place? Would that make it worse for him or better?
I said perhaps he should ask to see someone else's contract (they're all friends and all getting treated badly!) to see what it says - ??
He's not bothered about the holiday entitlement - basically if he didn't use up his days they just disappeared. He had reasons for not taking time off (money basically) - but that's in their favour anyway if he didn't use them surely?! He certainly didn't get paid for any unused holidays.
Have been looking on ACAS website and seems to be saying you usually only get suspended for gross misconduct and it has to be serious. Looking down the list it doesn't mention swearing!! Lots of other things that I can understand - but swearing out loud - nope!!
Not sure that they'd have a company handbook. What would happen if he requested a copy of his contract and they then realised there wasn't one in place? Would that make it worse for him or better?
I said perhaps he should ask to see someone else's contract (they're all friends and all getting treated badly!) to see what it says - ??
He's not bothered about the holiday entitlement - basically if he didn't use up his days they just disappeared. He had reasons for not taking time off (money basically) - but that's in their favour anyway if he didn't use them surely?! He certainly didn't get paid for any unused holidays.
Have been looking on ACAS website and seems to be saying you usually only get suspended for gross misconduct and it has to be serious. Looking down the list it doesn't mention swearing!! Lots of other things that I can understand - but swearing out loud - nope!!
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