Laws for off work because of stress - employers side.

[merton69]

Hello.

I have been offered a job that may become available because the original worker has been off work with family related stress for about 3 months.

Obviously, the employer just can't end his contract 'just like that', so when does there become a position where the employer can terminate the contract with the original worker and offer it to me without getting into some sort of trouble.

Is the chap off with stress got as long as it takes or is there a period of time he has to return by?...or anything else that can influence the situation please?

[lcg]

temp job first. health procedures/law followed. eventual dismissal - a loooooong way down the line. readvertise new post - you may have to apply for that one. complicated, esp with no particulars, but you get the gist of it x

[merton69]

Thanks. I will keep an eye out on how 'they' approach this.

[EDDIE51]

If medical opinion is that the stress , or any other illness, is going to effect the long term employment of the person on sick leave they can be dismissed as 'medically unfit' for employment. Not sure that is the correct term but basically, if it looks like the person may never be fully fit to return they can be dismissed on medical grounds.
Very few company sick pay schemes will cover more than 12 weeks on sick pay so after 3 months it is likedly the absentee has go on to satutory sick pay and will no longer be payed by the company.

[lcg]

you can certainly take over their duties post and have no comeback for how they (the company) handle the situation. but no guarantee of permanent post becoming available, may have to leave temp post suddenly if s/he recovers and returns to work and may ruin any friendships/loyalties involved if you know that person or through friends (things can become so complicated!). just be careful of covering your own bum and do what's right for you with risks involved. i wish you luck and even if it is a temp situation, it may be a good experience for you financially/professionally. just go in with your eyes open!!!

[lcg]

btw...dismissal can often take over a year even for 'simple stress'. lots of hoops to jump through/boxes to tick/stages of sickness monitoring etc. some companies/posts cannot be filled even on a temp basis while the original person is employed (and agency/bank staff are used - you may have to enquire about their methods!) x

[EDDIE51]

If it is a stressful job and the person has already been off for 3 months with stress , even though it may not be directly related to the job, that is a pretty good indication that if they do return it will have to be to an easier less stressful position. If I was in that position as the employer I would give you the job but allow the absentee to come back to another position if they wanted to.

[merton69]

Thanks for your help and advice. Been out of work for 2 years and this could be the chance to get back in to what I enjoy working.

What you all have written, is what I thought and just needed time scales etc, so I just have to be careful.

Thanks everyone!

[boxtops]

YOu might be offered a post on a short fixed term contract to cover the period whilst the sickness is being investigated and the person's ability to manage the job is being assessed. It will very much depend on your employer's terms and conditions of sick leave, and the essential nature of the job, and whether or not the person can ever reasonably return.

[lcg]

if that's the case...get nosing! x

[merton69]

I am pretty sure the stress in non work related and more family/relationship based.

[woofgang]

If the stress is not job related then the process can be faster IIRC. An employee has some duty to present themselves able for work and if their personal life is preventing this then some of the employers hoops can be bypassed.

[EDDIE51]

Woofgang that's what I was trying to say but you put it better.
If the person has already been off 3 months due to their personal circumstances , I would say they could be at least 'laid off' even if not dismissed. I would take a large bet that the employees doctor has been writing sick notes for 'stress' as a way of helping the person through a difficult time. There is no medical test for 'stress' it is down to the doctors discretion. I personally know of several cases where a doctor has offered to give someone sick notes for 'stress' as a way of getting them paid leave to help them in such situations.

[lcg]

i spent 14 months of work with stress and was not fired. there were a lot of issues involved, now resolved and i remain in my post. as stated earlier, depends on the particulars and all of them will probably never be covered in posts on here. don't forget mental health issues/or 'stress' can and usually is covered by the disability discrimination act, is irrelevant whether caused by the job (think, for example, if somebody's child passed away) so should not be circumvented by any employer worth their salt in 3-6 months. if it were, i wouldn't want to go and work for them.

[woofgang]

Lcg76, as you say circumstances alter cases but I have been a manager and i know that the stress put on a small business or team by a person being long term absent and not being allowed to sort a permanent replacement can make other team members ill too! Deffo not saying that folk who have trauma in their private lives don't deserve sympathy and consideration but the rest of the world is still happening and the person off sick is not the only one who management have a duty of care towards.

[woofgang]

Ps the dda does not say that someone cannot be medically dismissed if they are too unwell/disabled to do their job. It says that employers must "give serious consideration to" and "make every effort to" adjust the job or find the person another one, NOT that they must keep the person in their original role or redeploy them. I am glad that you were able to keep your job, as you say, circumstances do differ and may be complex.

[ojread2]

". It says that employers must "give serious consideration to" and "make every effort to" adjust the job or find the person another one, "

And if there isn't another job the person is qualified to do, as long as the employer has made efforts, followed the correct procedure etc then that employer can dismiss that employee. Not sure of correct terminology but it's about the employee being able to perform their part of the contract signed

http://www.direct.gov...b/Dismissal/DG_175834

[Peter Pedant]

sounz like the employees side
however lcg 76 gives an accurate gist of the long and winding road


Bear in mind the stressed person who I hope is in a union will be saying the c**p conditions of his or her job is causing the stress so that if they wish to lay him or her off he or she will want much much moola


for your point of view take the job and pray
(for a just settlement)

[woofgang]

"Bear in mind the stressed person who I hope is in a union will be saying the c**p conditions of his or her job is causing the stress so that if they wish to lay him or her off he or she will want much much moola"

According to the OP, the stress is not caused by the job, in any case, the employee must demonstrate that the stress caused by the job exceeds a reasonable level.

[woofgang]

PS I have been on both ends of this situation, also been a co worker adversely affected by someone else's long term stressed cause sick leave.

[tonywiltshire]

Statute identifies five potentially fair reasons for dismissal, one of which is capability.
To successfully defend a claim of unfair dismissal the employer would be expected to carry out reasonable investigations into the employee’s absence and give them an opportunity to comment. In the absence of any improvement the employer could dismiss them, probably on the grounds of capability rather than conduct (another potentially fair reason for dismissal), as the employer would not wish to prove the employee was malingering. There is no set time limit when this action can be taken it is up to the employer who risks a claim of unfair dismissal. There is a good deal of case law concerning employees being dismissed for absence due to serious and prolonged illness.