If a tree falls..... What if...

[kermit911]

Question. If a tree falls and no one... blah blah blah We all know the saying. I belive the answer is No, correct? The tree does not make a noise if there is no one there to hear it. I'm not sure where I heard that from. But if that is the case. Couldn't the same be said about us "Humans" in the fact that, I'm at work right now. That is all I can see. Does that mean the rest of the world doesn't excist? Just somthing I though of while sitting here. :-) Thanx all

Dave

[kempie]

I think this all comes down to perception.

We can only perceive the things that we sense (see, hear, touch etc.) anything beyond that we must trust from other sources.

Therefore we only really know what we sense (or our interpretation of what we sense), all other knowledge external to ourselves is based on belief.

[OBonio]

I came up with this theory when I was about 10. I've been scarred thinking about it the last 20 years. No conclusions yet.

[jake-the-peg]

There is a concept called a koan in Zen Buddhism - it's a question that is not meant to be answered but is meant to try to get you out of your normal thinking patterns - This is a similar thing. Like "What is the sound of one hand clapping."

If it's working you may start wondering if I actually exist.

If you want a physical answer you could answer Yes because sound is vibrations of the air which are caused whether someone is there or not.

Or you could answer No because a sound is more that air vibrations and must be percieved by an observer in the same way that a dog does not have a sight but you can see and thus experience a dog.

Alternatively you could go down the whole Shrodingers cat route where the observer influences the observed event but I wouldn't advise that on a Friday

[ludwig]

Does reality exist independently of what we perceive or
does the act of perception create the reality.
Try this experiment while you are still at work. Put a wastepaper bin on your head and ask yourself 'does anything exist outside of what I can now see?'. If someone approaches you and says 'what the puck are you playing at kermit?', that person must have existed outside of your perception - or did they only start to exist when you heard them speak? I don't know.

[Loosehead]

I does make a sound, ie vibration, there is no vibration detectors present (ears) but it still makes the "sound". Same with the visual question

[samz90]

I think it has been mentioned in a simpsons episode when bart plays flanders son at mini golf?

[kermit911]

SIMPSONS,  I love the Simpsons.  Thanx for all the replies everyone.

[Bangkok]

Having work in a forest in a previous existence, it makes a noise, Trust me, the tree does not know if you are listening.  As such, it makes a noise regardless.

If you say something and there is no-one to hear it, did you make a noise.  Well, er, yes.  Schrodinger must be turning in his grave

[tubeway]

I am retraining at the moment and the course includes modules on acoustics. Sound is caused by variations in pressure. The sensation of sound is subjective - it must be heard - or recieved at the brain to become sound - otherwise it is just vibrations

[newtron]

You should check the South Park 'Tooth fairy' episode. Kyle starts wondering about his own existence after he finds out there is no tooth fairy.  It is hilarious!

[magicdice]

check out the theory of knowledge, a large area of philosophy. it depends whether you're a rationalist or an empiricist, as empiricists are the ones that think that if you can't perceive it then it may not exist, but rationalists reckon that provided you can reason its existence then it's there

[Mikesmith165]

of course it makes a noise its just no one can hear that noise

[magicdice]

it makes a sound, not a noise....

or a noise, not a sound

can never remember which

[kempie]

It produces a sound wave vibration which only becomes 'sound' when a detector (e.g. ears) recieves and interprets the wave.

[MargeB]

The device for manufacture of the 'perception' that a sound is there, is in your head, and this device can manufacture the perception whether a tree falls or not.

Human sensation exists for action not for coming to know reality per se. I think we retained this feature from the lower creatures we evolved from, like monkeys.