Is this the face of British Democracy

[whiskeryron]

Doctors & Nurses are being left out of talks about NHS changes at a meeting at No10, is this not like Fascist tactics instead of the Democracy we think we have ?

http://www.guardian.c...-nhs-summit-criticism

Ron.

[venator]

Running scared. Some good points, but dreadful timing.

[slaney]

i don't think I've ever been as angry about anything political as I am about the new NHS bill.
The GPs burden the main responsibility for the "reforms", but bizarrely not trusted enough to be involved in the process.
A nice summary from Ben Goldacre here. Not surprisingly the Royal Colleges who are against the bill are the ones who actually bothered to ask the opinion of their members...
http://bengoldacre.po...d-to-camerons-emergen

[Philtaz]

Can't bring himself to face the very people who looked after and cared for his son so professionally.

Shameful.

[Gromit]

This is very similar to Margaret Thatcher and the Poll Tax.

She got behind a poorly thoughout and badly implemented policy and steamrolled it through cabinet. She would not listen to any descenting voices and surrounded herself with weak yes men. Ultimately, it was her downfall.

Cameron is falling into the same trap. Failing to listen. He will come out of this weaker.

[whiskeryron]

I am waiting with baited breath for comments from readers of the Daily Wail.

Ron.

[slaney]

Whiskeryron the outcry is not confined to the left end of the political spectrum.
Today's Telegraph has this article highlighting the fact that the government own Risk Register which Andrew Lansley refuses to publish despite being ordered so to do by the Information Commissioner last November, has still not been published. This report of course has been leaked, and is said to indicate that there are risks to patient care and safety, that there will be a surge in costs, and that GPs do not have the necessary skills to implement the changes.
http://www.telegraph....per-into-the-NHS.html
This from today's Daily Mail..
http://www.dailymail....nsleys-proposals.html

[whiskeryron]

I am getting more & more convinced that the Tories are trying to introduce the American system of healthcare by medical insurance via the backdoor ( they know they can't do it openly so they are using other tactics).
http://www.dailymail....nsleys-proposals.html


Ron.

[whiskeryron]

http://www.dailymail....nsleys-proposals.html

Please refer to Slaney's link above.

Ron.

[chaptazbru]

I hope this brings Cameron down like poll tax brought Thatcher down. What in hell does he think he's doing??? Who voted for this upper class clown ???

[dave50]

As long as the NHS is free on the point of delivery, what does it matter how this is achieved? Just because the private sector is involved doesn't automatically mean it's a bad thing. It seems to me that a lot of the objections are ideologically driven.

[Gromit]

Everyone must agree that the NHS needs to be reformed. But when nearly everyone who has knowledge of how the NHS works is saying the proposed changes will be a disaster, then the Government ought to listen. The Poll tax was just an unpopular tax. This is different, it is everyones health that is under threat.

[dave50]

The poll tax was only unpopular because it would have meant that every person would have to pay at least something towards local services and it would have been the end for all the free loaders, it was they who objected.

[chaptazbru]

Still brought Thatcher down though thank God !

[youngmafbog]

Bought Thatcher down than kGod, well just as well she had sorted the labour mess out first.

[Sqad]

The meeting was to assess the best way of implementing the changes NOT whether they should be implemented.

if one wanted a successful and helpful meeting then one would exclude the antagonists..e.g Royal College of General Practitioners, Royal College of Nurses and the BMA.

Seems sensible to me.

[slaney]

The NHS bill needs the co-operation of the GPs to be successful Sqad, so excluding them is the opposite of good sense.

[Sqad]

slaney....the Bill is GOING to be implemented..............excluding the GP's from the meeting is to avoid a slanging match with a resultant no decision meeting..........which i have seen many times in medical politics.

[slaney]

Well, I agree there is only a slim chance it can be stopped, but that's no reason to stop trying!
If the government could be forced to publish the Risk Register (see above) that would help.

[Sqad]

slaney....the GP's will fall in line....believe me..... they had a nice little payrise with less work and reduced on-call with the last Government and they will not give that up.

The GP's know.......the alternative for them to the NHS is to opt out.........then see how quickly they will accept the bill.............

[slaney]

GPs could in theory carry on looking after their patients for which they get paid, and go down down the "non-cooperation" (for administrative matters) path without opting out of the NHS.
I still think it was a major error by the government to exclude them.