ChatterBank1 min ago
Russian Laws On Homosexuality
10 Answers
I know this was covered in a recent thread, but my devilish ;o) mind just wanted to throw a different light on the subject.
I’ve tried to read as much of the press coverage as I can but, as is always the case, every reporter/agency puts a different slant on things. When was there ever a publication that reported absolutely every side of a story? Even so, I’d like to take at face value what appears to be the main thrust of these new Russian laws, namely the banning of the promotion of homosexuality. The first reaction of many is going to be “Oh Russia, you sorely backward nation”.
OK, first things first. I have professional colleagues – and many solvers of our puzzles – who are gay. They are great friends for whom I feel nothing but affection. And you know something? I only know they’re gay because of the occasional very casual comment on eg Facebook. If you met them you’d never know unless there was specific reason for them to tell you.
Because here’s the thing. Sexuality is surely the most intensely personal part of who we are. Why should it be a public thing? I don’t feel any need to campaign for “Proud to be straight” rallies. My sexuality is a private part of my life and not something to be thrown at others. Most importantly, I think it would be utterly wrong to try to persuade people that my sexuality is somehow “the right way”.
Let’s suppose I happened to be gay, and I’m faced with a new law that says I can no longer promote my sexual choice.
Well… why on earth would I be promoting it?
If we want to stick to what we can generally call ‘living memory’ then let us think of the 1960s onwards. Since that time there have been concerted and thoroughly justified campaigns for equality in many areas – gender, sexuality, religion, ethnicity and more. And these have been absolutely right. The words ‘equality’ and ‘integration’ go hand-in-hand here; regardless of your gender, sexuality etc the most important thing is that society accepts you as equal in every way. But in many areas this has gone too far and actually had the opposite effect in that so-called minority groups have consciously ghettoised themselves. You know? Since we’re on the subject of sexuality, you have gay chess clubs, travel clubs, book clubs. Why? Are there specific ‘gay’ chess moves or something?
It sounds comically ridiculous, but it’s happened, and the worst thing is that this very opposite of integration and acceptance has led, sometimes, to what can only be described as a sort of radicalisation. So we have this body of the gay ‘lobby’ which aggressively promotes itself (in some cases even saying that if you’re not gay you should be) and I think that can get peoples’ backs up.
Like I said earlier, sexuality is intensely private. Personally, I just can’t see that it warrants any sort of ‘promotion’ but that is strictly personal opinion. Could it be that the Duma is merely taking a similar view?
I’ve tried to read as much of the press coverage as I can but, as is always the case, every reporter/agency puts a different slant on things. When was there ever a publication that reported absolutely every side of a story? Even so, I’d like to take at face value what appears to be the main thrust of these new Russian laws, namely the banning of the promotion of homosexuality. The first reaction of many is going to be “Oh Russia, you sorely backward nation”.
OK, first things first. I have professional colleagues – and many solvers of our puzzles – who are gay. They are great friends for whom I feel nothing but affection. And you know something? I only know they’re gay because of the occasional very casual comment on eg Facebook. If you met them you’d never know unless there was specific reason for them to tell you.
Because here’s the thing. Sexuality is surely the most intensely personal part of who we are. Why should it be a public thing? I don’t feel any need to campaign for “Proud to be straight” rallies. My sexuality is a private part of my life and not something to be thrown at others. Most importantly, I think it would be utterly wrong to try to persuade people that my sexuality is somehow “the right way”.
Let’s suppose I happened to be gay, and I’m faced with a new law that says I can no longer promote my sexual choice.
Well… why on earth would I be promoting it?
If we want to stick to what we can generally call ‘living memory’ then let us think of the 1960s onwards. Since that time there have been concerted and thoroughly justified campaigns for equality in many areas – gender, sexuality, religion, ethnicity and more. And these have been absolutely right. The words ‘equality’ and ‘integration’ go hand-in-hand here; regardless of your gender, sexuality etc the most important thing is that society accepts you as equal in every way. But in many areas this has gone too far and actually had the opposite effect in that so-called minority groups have consciously ghettoised themselves. You know? Since we’re on the subject of sexuality, you have gay chess clubs, travel clubs, book clubs. Why? Are there specific ‘gay’ chess moves or something?
It sounds comically ridiculous, but it’s happened, and the worst thing is that this very opposite of integration and acceptance has led, sometimes, to what can only be described as a sort of radicalisation. So we have this body of the gay ‘lobby’ which aggressively promotes itself (in some cases even saying that if you’re not gay you should be) and I think that can get peoples’ backs up.
Like I said earlier, sexuality is intensely private. Personally, I just can’t see that it warrants any sort of ‘promotion’ but that is strictly personal opinion. Could it be that the Duma is merely taking a similar view?
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@Anax That just sounds like a rather long-winded way of saying
@Anax Cannot comment directly on the new laws on homosexuality in russia. Have not really read the reports.
Some of your other comments though, are worth comment;
First, it presupposes a kind of level playing field, where people, whatever their, in this case, sexual orientation, are treated equally by all.
We know that is not true. Homophobia is still out there. It was not that long ago that it was regarded as shameful, you could be locked up, even chemically castrated, a la Alan Turing. Young kids felt pressured into hiding their sexuality, pretending they were something they were not, in order to conform and escape censure or loathing or bullying.
You have said it yourself, in your own post - ones sexuality is an intensely personal and integral part of who you are.
So - given that background of intolerance, disgust, inequality, shame, bigotry, bullying,violence and worse - how would combat such a situation?
The answer is simple. You band together. You form clubs of like-minded people, where you can be free to be exactly who you are - exactly like your heterosexual compatriots, in fact. Then you might, indignant and impatient with the injustice, campaign - politically an culturally.
And eventually, the tide of public opinion turns a little bit in your favour. It is no longer always a shameful offence to be homosexual. You no longer always have to hide who you are. You no longer always have to fear being beaten up or bullied- although make no mistake, it still happens.
And gradually that need for separate clubs will dissipate. Those Gay Pride marches will no longer be solely about Gay rights and gay pride, but become an occassion for general jollity. And finally, it just becomes part of life and we can all get along.
The danger with a law, rather innocuously described as trying to prevent the "promotion" of homosexuality would be - what is defined as promotion? Would a gay pride rally in Moscow for instance, standing up for yourself, your own sexuality and your own right to be treated as a human being - would that be regarded as "promoting" homosexuality, or flaunting your sexuality?
In short - examine the history of any equality movement. They all follow the same steps - Injustice, Ghetto Mentality, Protest, Radicalisation, Acceptance.
So no, I do not think the Duma are merely doing anything. I think they are taking active steps to introduce legal instruments of repression.
@Anax Cannot comment directly on the new laws on homosexuality in russia. Have not really read the reports.
Some of your other comments though, are worth comment;
First, it presupposes a kind of level playing field, where people, whatever their, in this case, sexual orientation, are treated equally by all.
We know that is not true. Homophobia is still out there. It was not that long ago that it was regarded as shameful, you could be locked up, even chemically castrated, a la Alan Turing. Young kids felt pressured into hiding their sexuality, pretending they were something they were not, in order to conform and escape censure or loathing or bullying.
You have said it yourself, in your own post - ones sexuality is an intensely personal and integral part of who you are.
So - given that background of intolerance, disgust, inequality, shame, bigotry, bullying,violence and worse - how would combat such a situation?
The answer is simple. You band together. You form clubs of like-minded people, where you can be free to be exactly who you are - exactly like your heterosexual compatriots, in fact. Then you might, indignant and impatient with the injustice, campaign - politically an culturally.
And eventually, the tide of public opinion turns a little bit in your favour. It is no longer always a shameful offence to be homosexual. You no longer always have to hide who you are. You no longer always have to fear being beaten up or bullied- although make no mistake, it still happens.
And gradually that need for separate clubs will dissipate. Those Gay Pride marches will no longer be solely about Gay rights and gay pride, but become an occassion for general jollity. And finally, it just becomes part of life and we can all get along.
The danger with a law, rather innocuously described as trying to prevent the "promotion" of homosexuality would be - what is defined as promotion? Would a gay pride rally in Moscow for instance, standing up for yourself, your own sexuality and your own right to be treated as a human being - would that be regarded as "promoting" homosexuality, or flaunting your sexuality?
In short - examine the history of any equality movement. They all follow the same steps - Injustice, Ghetto Mentality, Protest, Radicalisation, Acceptance.
So no, I do not think the Duma are merely doing anything. I think they are taking active steps to introduce legal instruments of repression.
Anax, I am 100% certain that the Duma (the Kremlin I suspect really because the Duma is not really an independent body these days) is thinking nothing of the sort.
This is the latest in a series of "catch-all" laws in Russia which are designed to be applied at the whim of the government as an excuse for repression.
And in fact, almost certainly the Powers That Be hope the attack on homosexuality is going to be popular with the masses. Russian governments have long relied on the paranoia and simple patriotism of their citizens. By that mentality anything "not normal" is a threat to the motherland - and count "sexual deviancy" in that.
This is the latest in a series of "catch-all" laws in Russia which are designed to be applied at the whim of the government as an excuse for repression.
And in fact, almost certainly the Powers That Be hope the attack on homosexuality is going to be popular with the masses. Russian governments have long relied on the paranoia and simple patriotism of their citizens. By that mentality anything "not normal" is a threat to the motherland - and count "sexual deviancy" in that.
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