When Is A Sport Not A Truly Competitive Sport?

[sunny-dave]

To me, it's not a competitive sport if it isn't measured purely objectively - faster/higher/further etc.

As soon as you introduce subjective elements it becomes something entirely different - aesthetically beautiful or technically accurate it may be, but it's not a true competitive sport.

So I have lots of problems with the Winter Olympics - the skiing is pure sport, but the ski-jumping is not. The speed skating is OK, but the 'poncing around on ice' (aka ice dance etc) really isn't. The curling and bi-athlon are great, but the 'showing off on a snowboard' is much less satisfactory.

I'm in no way demeaning the skill of the participants in the 'subjectively marked' events - I just wish there was a better/different name for them.

[paulllambert]

Couldn't have put it better.

[brionon]

Yeah-I hate anything to do with judges,especially Cooking competitions !

[bibblebub]

absolutely, and same for anything that requires an animal (e.g. horse) to do the work

[aelmpvw]

i know nothing about the rules of speed skating but a saw someone win a gold yesterday because everyone else in front of him fell over ... seems like an empty victory to me

[bhg481]

Absolutely - any competition whose result is a "matter of opinion" is a complete waste of time (even boxing).
When I was a boy my parents were friendly with a couple who bred spaniels for competition. They would go to a show, see who the judges were and say "3rd this time" or "we will win today". I've had no faith in judges competition since then.

[ludwig]

You're ruling out alot of stuff there..boxing, or anything with a referee or umpire that makes subjective decisions like penalties, offsides, LBW - so football, cricket etc etc.

[Vicasso]

Totally agree. Generally, I tend to think of sport as being actively competitive between participants and anything else as a game. Golf is a game as the golfers are always playing the course with their own set of skills and not their opponent(s). Same with darts, archery, shooting etc. They always play the board or target.

[ToraToraTora]

by your measure football is not a sport.

[ToraToraTora]

what about boxing? Judo? etc

[bhg481]

I take your point, Ludwig, but I think there is a difference between someone deciding the end result and someone judging whether an event is within the rules, although I agree that that can affect the final result.

[vulcan42]

Agree with all that's been said,it's time the word sport was redefined. My dictionary describes it as "An athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature". So far so good but it then lists sports and includes fishing--athletic??. Perhaps fighting a barracuda might be described as energetic but sitting on a river bank with a flask and sandwiches should not be considered a sport.

[sunny-dave]

I agree - by my tight definition anything with a referee/umpire is not a true, objective sport.

I think I'm less worried about an official applying "the rules of the game", although that can get pretty partial (just think "Pakistani Cricket Umpire" before we moved to neutral officials).

It's the 'artistic impression' and 'style' stuff that I don't like very much.

[Bazile]

What does that say about football -

'' ref that was never a penalty ''

'' ref that was never a free kick - are you blind ?''

'' ref that was never offside ''

ditto - rugby , cricket etc etc

[bibblebub]

Some red herrings seemed to be thrown into the debate. In amateur boxing they do attempt to count the number of valid punches, so they have tried to eliminate the subjective aspect of scoring. With judo there are a fixed set of points for the different throws achieved. Football is all about the number of goals scored.

[Old_Jim]

There is. It's called "showing off". Instead of medals, they should be sent to bed with no supper.

[ToraToraTora]

so chess is a sport then!

[Hopkirk]

Would you like to strip Torville and Dean of their medals then, dave?

[sunny-dave]

Hoppy - apologies for the late reply - I was in transit (or easyjet to be more precise).

I think T&D were brilliant and deserved their World Championships ... but their event should not have been at the Olympics, which should be above such subjective events.

The Olympic motto is "Citius, Altius, Fortius" - which is Latin for "Faster, Higher, Stronger" - it doesn't seem to have been designed to include "Prettier, Smilier, Poncier" and should stick to stuff that can be measured - not marked on the whim of judges.

[ToraToraTora]

Ok on that basis dave what sports can stay in the (summer) olympics? Althletics, can you think of any others? I was thinking of tennis but even that has subjectivity.