Assisted Dying

[2sp_]

I write this as a genuine question. If anyone is likely to be upset about discussions regarding suicide, please accept my apologies now and don't read any further...

I am a supporter of Assisted Dying for those who are terminally ill and choose to end their lives on their own terms.

I was wondering if this should also include those people who suffer from severe depression or other mental health issues? I know that these conditions can be treated, but most often they are not completely cured just controlled with drugs.

If someone who is suffering just cannot take living any longer and has tried a huge variety of treatments decides that they want to end their lives, could this not be done in a controlled environment? They could say their goodbyes, and avoid any botched attempts that could leave them in a worse physical and mental state than before.

No one would have to find the deceased and therefore there would at least be no distress with that aspect of suicide.

I know that families and friends are left devastated by suicide, but if they knew that there was nothing they could have done would that ease the pain any? There would be fewer unanswered questions.

Even if someone considering lone suicide could approach a clinic for help to die, it may open up new discussions on how to cope, maybe avoiding ending their life in the long run.

I hope that I haven't offended anyone. This is a genuine question I have been pondering over the last few days, prompted by the sad death of Robin Williams.

I'm not saying that we should allow people with mental health issues to have assisted deaths, just wondering if it is something we should consider?

[royfromaus]

I knew as soon as I read the title what this was going to be about.


No!

[2sp_]

I'm not saying we should, just that maybe society needs to discuss it?

[hc4361]

If somebody wants to kill themselves for any reason it would be excellent if there were a facility they could move in to.
This would get them away from pressures they felt they couldn't deal with; give space to think; provide therapy and support.
If at the end of a set period - three months, six months? - they still feel the same, then assisted suicide could be an option.

The problem with this is that it is too expensive; family members are left to cope.

[jno]

I think this requires an informed decision and it's hard to say if someone in the depths of depression is in a position to make one. Are they able to consider the alternatives, or are they in too much despair to be able to do so? Would they, if the depression eases, still wish they had done so or would they be glad they did not?

I don't have an answer but maybe some of those who suffer from it could offer better informed comment than I can.

[Mamyalynne]

Whilst agreeing a discussion could be useful, I feel that the subject of depression in particular is so wide reaching that unlike a terminal diagnosis of say Brain Cancer ( as in my late Husband's case) the depressive state can be transient (as it was with me).

Of course some are affected by their mental issues all life long but others it can abate and a happy medium can be reached - I have more than once wanted to end everything, am I glad I didn't? Yes.

[2sp_]

I do suffer from mental health issues myself. I have SAD, which although only really raises it's ugly head for 5 or 6 months of the year, is debilitating. I have considered suicide in the past (a long time ago).

It such a difficult subject. I see the argument that someone in the grips of depression could be considered not to be "of sound mind" and therefore not able to make a rational decision.

[tamborine]

Carbon monoxide would be my choice. Can you do it with todays gasolines?

[boxtops]

Isupport what jno says above. The trouble with depression is, as I know personally, that any one point in time, life seems pointless and there is no way out any way at all. I would not have wanted anyone to see me at those dreadful low points and think that ending it would be a rational decision - I'm eternally grateful to those who eased me out of the depression, medically and supportively, rather than leaving me in it. Everyone, IMO, is different in their depressed state and the reasons for the depression.

[2sp_]

Not all depressions and mental health issues are recoverable conditions. Some suffer all their lives, for decades on end.

It's such a sad situation.

[boxtops]

I understand and agree, sp.

[Old_Geezer]

Whilst I think one owns one's own life, and should be the arbiter of any such decision, it is also clear that those with mental issues may need to be aided to see and do what is best, and which they may not be able to see; rather than simply help them on their way.

In principle one should not allow those with physical issues an option not available to those with mental issues, but decision making is a mental process and society needs to define when, if at all, it should overrule the individual's stated will.

I think, at present, it isn't clear cut when this should be, and so society plays what it believes to be "safe", and forces the sufferer to remain trying to be "cured". I'm unsure I've heard a good reason for a different course of action. If there were something objective that could clarify why someone should be assisted in leaving and another not then that would be worth considering, but what could that be ?

In any case much of the time those with a mental issue, such as depression, are quite capable of performing the deed without assistance, as the recent case in the news, shows.

I'm unsure how your comment that you are not saying that we should allow people with mental health issues to have assisted death, fits in with your argument to consider it beforehand. OK you are just asking for discussion but have you not just put the "for" case ?

[2sp_]

I honestly don't know if I would be for or against it OG. I can see the arguments for both sides.

[tamborine]

To assist a death is too much responsibility for anyone. I do agree with opiates for pain relief that could lead to a death.

[woofgang]

I think its always going to have a large element of subjectivity. I also think that there needs to be some kind of separation of those people who are suffering from reactive depression and who may therefore get through the episode and go on to lead a happy life, and bipolar sufferers whose illness may not be controllable and who know what the future holds. If assisted dying is to be allowed, then i don't think its at all reasonable to exclude mental suffering as a reason for wishing to die.

[woofgang]

tambo, if my late DH had asked me to, which he didn't, I would have assisted his end with a clear conscience.

[2sp_]

Thank you all for your answers.

[choux]

I once worked with a woman whose husband was a police officer assigned to the Coroner's Office. Quite often she would come to work upset and angry because someone had committed suicide. She would say 'Don't they realise that my husband has to go in and cut them down, empty the bath water, remove the bag and tape from around their neck or wade through blood to get to them? Do they never think of the poor trainer driver either?Why can't they just take a huge overdose of paracetamol and a bottle of spirits?'

There was really nothing we could say to her questions but the subject was often mentioned. We would consider the situation of the deceased, their family & friends and those who attended the aftermath. We soon realised that the chosen method of suicide could add a further dimension to someone's passing.

[woofgang]

I just remembered this
No Worst, There Is None

No worst, there is none. Pitched past pitch of grief,
More pangs will, schooled at forepangs, wilder wring.
Comforter, where, where is your comforting?
Mary, mother of us, where is your relief?
My cries heave, herds-long; huddle in a main, a chief
Woe, world-sorrow; on an age-old anvil wince and sing —
Then lull, then leave off. Fury had shrieked ‘No ling-
ering! Let me be fell: force I must be brief’.

O the mind, mind has mountains; cliffs of fall
Frightful, sheer, no-man-fathomed. Hold them cheap
May who ne’er hung there. Nor does long our small
Durance deal with that steep or deep. Here! creep,
Wretch, under a comfort serves in a whirlwind: all
Life death does end and each day dies with sleep.


Gerard Manley Hopkins

[sherrardk]

I have had a very real conversation about assisted dying and it is so difficult and personal as all situations are different. It is a very heavy burden to shoulder.

[wolf63]

It is known that rates of suicide are higher in people with major mood disorders, and can be as high as 1 in 5 (20%) http://tinyurl.com/m8zkwlh

I think that if someone is determined to commit suicide they will overcome obstacles and do it.

My brain has now run out of steam and I have completely forgotten what I was going to say next. My brain stopped working properly when the doctors prescribed my psychiatric medication but I have been threatened with being sectioned if I don't take them.

Maybe I will remember what else I wanted to say later


W☺lf