Organ Donation, Presumed Consent.

[sapelesam]

As the Government discuss changing the law regarding organ donation, are you for or against presumed consent. I have always carried a donor card and am registered, after my death they can have what ever they want. I can see a great benefit to ethnic minorities who are woefully under represented on the register. Can the health service afford all the extra transplants that will now be possible. A few points there, very interested in AB'ers views.

[woofgang]

excellent point ellipsis.....weasel words as I said

[gness]

Over many years I got to know the transplant team well.....
None of them saw the victim of sudden death as the bringer of organs and I know how difficult it was for them having to discuss the possibility of donating organs with distressed families.....
The potential new system would put an end to that...

[sunny-dave]

Good point gness - the concept that this proposed legislation will make the transplant team some sort of 'state authorised body snatchers' is not right - they are medical professionals trying to do the best for their patients whilst dealing with the bereaved relatives in a sensitive and caring way.

John Prescott's comments were (to say the least) unfortunate - but they shouldn't be used to torpedo this initiative.

[kvalidir]

I'm afraid that if someone who has not given this much thought ( laxly granted) perhaps a very young person for example, is on the verge of death and their families vehemently do not wish them to be donors, then that is EXACTLY what it will make a transplant team, and I cannot imagine any of them wanting that. Can you imagine the scenes of distress?

[woofgang]

gness I don't think it will put an end to those discussions....what it will mean is that the transplant team will be put into the wonderful situation of saying "we know you don't want this but the law says that we can do it so its going to happen anyway"

[sunny-dave]

A hypothetical and rather rare scenario, kval - and one in which you and I both know the doctors would not attempt to proceed.

The possibility of occasional hard cases (actually rather fewer than under the existing system) shouldn't derail this initiative.

[woofgang]

and like it or not, undeniably they will be state authorised removers of organs....notice I didn't use any emotive terms.....btw, no one has answered my question about whether donated blood counts?

[woofgang]

how do you know that there will be fewer hard cases dave?

[sunny-dave]

If can imagine a doctor say anything as callous as that to grieving relatives, woofgang, then you're living in a very different country to me.

[gness]

Not if an opt out card is carried, Wolf?

[sunny-dave]

Every case without a donor card is a hard case now - in the future it only gets hard if the family positively dispute the deceased's intentions.

[kvalidir]

Of course it will proceed, when the law is on their side the medical profession are very hard line indeed, ask Charlie Gard's parents.
If the law says they can do it they will do it, and it will be appalling and heartbreaking for the families not in agreement.

[woofgang]

I am sure that they won't use those words...well fairly sure.....but those will be the facts of the case....and if they aren't going to proceed in the face of family refusal then how will the situation differ from now?

[woofgang]

I don't see why opters out should be the ones who have the additional responsibility of carrying a card at all times.

[gness]

Kval.....you must have met some very strange transplant teams....

That's a shame....the ones I got to know were very caring towards every patient.....x

[woofgang]

same as now then....if the relis do not dispute the request for organ donation then it will go ahead...if they do refuse/protest it gets difficult now....the only difference will be that, as I said, the donation team will be able to say (as nicely as you like) "we know you don;t want this but the law is on our side so we are going to do it anyway" and if they aren't going to do that that why is "presumed consent" needed?

[anneasquith]

I believe this subject although emotive, is quite uncomplicated. If you do not wish to donate organs,, opt out. There is no right or wrong decision.

[sunny-dave]

It changes the balance, woofgang - gives the bereaved relatives some definite indication of what the deceased would wish - rather than starting from your "don't know" answer every time.

[kvalidir]

So Gness are you telling me that this legislation is a complete waste of time and that if I kick up a fuss about someone being a donor the transplant team will just back off and let me leave with my dead loved one intact? Then what is the point? It's nothing to do with how caring/ uncaring anyone is, I'm sure they are all lovely people, it is about what they are legally allowed to do.

[woofgang]

no it doesn't change the balance.....it changes what the law allows. If someone hasn't expressed a wish in either direction then they haven't expressed a wish..... or are you saying that if in cases where the dying person hasn't registered as a donor, all the the NOK has to do is say no he she would not want this, for the donor team to say oh that's ok then we believe you? Because once again if that is the case then I don't see how this is progress.