Problems With A 1890's Cottage

[khaleesi]

I am considering buying a 1890's, 4 bed detached cottage that needs to be extensively renovated. Two builders were going to buy it, and decided not to have a survey, but pulled out as a boundary dispute was taking too long to sort out (this has now been rectified) Anther buyer has just pulled out after reading the results of the survey, as he decided having the work done would be too disruptive. I haven't read the report yet, but the estate agent has told me that the roof needs replacing and the battens in the wall need replacing as they have completely deteriorated. He has assured me that there are no structural nor foundation problems. My question is, do you think there could be any other problems with the house that that the estate agent may not want to admit to/has forgotten about? The people that commissioned the survey have offered to sell it, but they want a couple of hundred pounds for it. It's already at the top of of my budget, and i know that i won't be able to afford it if anything else is wrong with it. I wondered, if the wood in the walls has deteriorated, is there not a high chance the wood in the floor would need replacing too?

[woofgang]

I am not sure that the people who commissioned the survey can sell....not the survey but the responsibility of the surveyor for errors and omissions. It may not be the case now but it used to be that the survey was produced for the use only of the commissioning person or persons and they were the only people entitled to recompense if the surveyor had cocked up.

[khaleesi]

i was thinking the same thing actually.
My mum told me her boyfriend had a survey done which came with a disclaimer stating they wouldn't be held accountable for any problems that arises which they hadn't mentioned

[jno]

in other words, don't trust a word we say ... that's a helpful survey.

[EDDIE51]

It is absolutely VITAL that you get your own independent survey done by a reputable surveyor with experience of this type of property.
From what you have written,the house needs a total rebuild .
(No structural problems but the wall battens have completely deteriorated and the roof needs replacing ???, that sounds like Bullsh*t for a start )
It is likely to cost a lot more than building a new property of a similar size from scratch. I assume that as it dates from the 1890s it is a listed Building? .More expense.

[Buenchico]

A couple of hundred quid isn't very much in the whole house-hunting process. Further, the people who're offering to sell it at that price haven't got an 'open market' for it (i.e. they can't offer to sell it on eBay). Try offering them a hundred quid and be prepared to settle midway at £150.

You'll then (hopefully) be in possession of sufficient information to help you decide whether it's worthwhile commissioning your own survey.

[Buenchico]

>>> I assume that as it dates from the 1890s it is a listed Building?

Er, why, Eddie?

Millions of homes in the UK are of that age (or older) but only a tiny percentage of them have 'listed' status.

[DarceyK123]

Sorry to put a dampener on things, but realistically it's going to need work from what you've said and the age of it.

If it's at the top of your budget then walk away, you will never have the money once you move in.

[RobNorth]

If you and your uncle Albert are going to do the work yourselves it might be worth a go, as presumably the price is commensurate with the poor condition. I've done one of these and in some ways it's easy once you have your mind set and work through the survey methodically, i.e. it's relatively simple to install new plumbing and wiring with the plaster off the walls and the floors up....personally, I picked the worst job from the survey to do first, which was to replace the broken drains - after that was done nothing deterred us and uncle Albert ended up with a lovely maintenance free home.
If you can't do the work yourself, walk away and buy a string of racehorses instead - it will be cheaper.

[Guilbert53]

DONT buy it, you will regret it.

[bednobs]

NEVER forget the estate agent is working for the seller, NOT you and it's in her interests to minimise problems.

[murraymints]

wouldn't touch with a barge pole unless you have squillions to spare !!

[ToraToraTora]

run a mile mate, do not touch with a barge pole unless you are so rich you don't care.

[The Builder]

I also think that your budget is too tight for a project of this kind. There are far too many unknowns.
I guess the battens in the wall are really the floor joists. I must agree with the others that you really do need a structural survey of your own.

With this type of undertaking, it is essential to have a substantial contingency fund to cover any other problems. I honestly think that, with the problems listed already, an 1890s house is more than likely to have further faults. Maybe all quite minor in themselves, but they will surely add up.

The initial purchase is only a part of the project. You really do need an additional cash buffer.

[Garaman]

You would be mad to buy it without a survey, unless you really know what you are doing, and if a 200 pound spend on a survey worries you I would pull out. I would pull out too if you don't have a bit of slack to cover unforeseen expenses, because there will be some - you need slack in the sense of cash you can get hold of for things you hadn't thought of, and you need slack in the budget so that you would still be in profit when the property is finished.

You say the cottage needs to be extensively renovated, but you don't say what you mean by that, and it could mean different things to different people. Perhaps you have reasonable budget in mind, and perhaps you really don't.

[khaleesi]

Ok, so just to clarify a few things here. I do have the money to complete all the known faults, plus an additional ten grand as a back up. I feel that i am in a better position than most to take this on as i have already completed quite a big renovation (external walls had to be knocked out and rebuilt, new kitchen, bathroom, plastering, electrics, wood work, and landscaped garden) and i done a good 65/70% myself. In addition, i have learnt so much, and i would love to put that knowledge to good use.
I am going to get a survey done, or pay to see the one that's already been completed after checking the reviews of the surveyor that has already done it. I was asking the question as i wanted to know if there is anything i can check myself before paying out the money for a survey as i know my budget is tight, and one big problem that comes up further down the line could mean that i have to pull out. I understand that a couple of hundred is not a large amount of money in the grand scheme of things, but don't think anyone would pass up the opportunity not to spend it if they didn't have to - especially if they could do a few checks them self. I also understand that the estate agent is not on my side. He understands it's at the top of my budget though, so i really don't think he would dumb down the problems knowing i am going to find out eventually, as it would be a waste of his time showing me the property.
A list of things that need to be completed:
New roof
new bathroom
new kitchen
internal walls knocked out and rebuilt
new electrics and plumbing, including a new boiler
new flooring/ skirting boards
and possibly an additional bathroom

[Garaman]

As you already know the property needs a new roof, and you intend to completely rewire it, I guess the obvious other issues for the surveyor are subsidence and damp. You should in fairness be able to see if the building is suffering from either of those assuming it hasn’t been touched up lately, though I still wouldn’t touch it without a survey.

Ten grand might sound a reasonable sum to have in reserve, but it depends of course on your estimates being accurate and thorough. It wouldn’t be difficult to lose that if you have underestimated any costs, or omitted any works - windows, doors, insulation? A lot too will depend on your project management skills. The figure used a lot for contingency at the planning stage is 15% of the overall cost, but that is what professional estimators use so you might increase that as you aren’t professional.

You mention battens in the walls – have the walls been dry lined? If they have and they are rotting, it sounds like they weren’t fixed on a damp proof material. If they are referring to joists then I would have thought that counts as structural. In any case, yes, if you have rotting woodwork in the building then of course you need to check it all, and find the cause.

I was trying to make the point that the amount of reserve you need will depend to some degree on the standard of job you are aiming for. For example I would probably put about twice the number of electrical outlets in a refurbishment as many people would, and I would certainly spend a lot more than most on the kitchen and bathrooms. My budget would be bigger, and my contingency would need to be bigger.

[youngmafbog]

If you arfe at the top of your budjet with the known problems then pass on it.

Having done no end of refurbs, both for my own Company and with other builders I can assure you things will 'appear' as you go regardless of what a surveyor tells you.

[khaleesi]

I am viewing it for the first time tomorrow, so in all fairness i don't know the full extent of what needs doing. I asked the question as i wanted to do a few tests myself before commissioning a survey. I have just googled what the signs of damp are, so i will look for that while i am there. I am not going to buy the house without a survey. I just wanted a heads up on what to look for

[ToraToraTora]

good luck mate but this has money pit written all over it, with only £10k contingency you are very liable to get into difficulty.

[BAKERS DOZEN]

We lived in a rented house and had been saving in a building society for quite a long time when we got the chance to purchase a 285yr old stone cottage in a beautiful setting with spectacular views over the countryside. This was in 1985. When we applied for a mortgage the society would not touch it as the walls were uneven and it had a stone roof, stone floors inside and all the other things you would find in an old property. We had to go to a specialist society who dealt with this sort of cottage and finally managed to get the funds. The walls were 28ins thick so when we installed gas central heating the vent from the boiler had to be specially made. It had to be competely rewired as it still had the straight 3 pin plugs and when the electrician tried to fix new plugs we discovered that the walls were made of horsehair plaster and we ended up having to have all walls stripped to the bone and replastered, which we had not bargained for. The elderly couple who were selling the cottage had put wooden battens up on every wall and then plasterboard panels to make it easier for them to decorate with wallpaper. When this was all stripped off we found 17 different paper patterns but we did end up with slightly larger rooms. We left one interior wall in the lounge as just stone and it looked lovely. The walls in the kitchen were so uneven it was a nightmare trying to fit kitchen units. Looked lovely when it was finished but each unit had to battened out top and bottom because of the shape of the walls, so each batten had to be made individually. That took us about six weeks as we had decided to do it ourselves to save money. The building society insisted that all the tiles had to come off the roof and all the roof joists had to be checked. Each roof tile weighed 1cwt so that was a really big job for our builder. He replaced the tiles but turned them over when he put them back. As someone has already said the more you do, the more you will find needs doing. Having said that when we sold it 5 years later, as Mr BD's mum had died and we moved to look after his dad, we sold it for 5 times what we had paid for it. There were a lot of listed buildings in the village but thankfully ours was not one of them as the restrictions they put on them are offputting. Try speaking to neighbours if there are any and ask what, if any, problems they have had with their properties when they have done renovations. Most people are happy to give advice and it would give you a chance to meet to meet your neighbours. It could also let them know they may be living with skips and dust and noise for a while. Make friends first.