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Suicide Disagreement
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In the past, you guys have answer my question so good. And helped me out along the way. So I thought I'd bring this one to you guys as well. Your thoughts and words seem to come across very well and makes me see things differently and maybe can help my friend see it as well.
I have a friend let's just call him Bob. We are both in adisagreement with each other on suicide. One of us thinks it's a coward's way out or easy way out. And they are being selfish and not thinking about the others that they are leaving behind and the way that they would feel over it. Nothing in this world isn't able to be overcome. It's's all on one person to decide to let others destroy them or to let themselves live in their past. The best way overcome anything and to let go of pain and hurt, is to show that you're strong and if you put your mind to it you can do anything. Nothing is worth taking your life for.
And the other thinks it's, ones choice if they want to. And that if they choose to die that the family members and and or other friends should be an understanding of the choice that they've made. And not to be upset or angry at them for it.
I look forward to reading your thoughts.
I have a friend let's just call him Bob. We are both in adisagreement with each other on suicide. One of us thinks it's a coward's way out or easy way out. And they are being selfish and not thinking about the others that they are leaving behind and the way that they would feel over it. Nothing in this world isn't able to be overcome. It's's all on one person to decide to let others destroy them or to let themselves live in their past. The best way overcome anything and to let go of pain and hurt, is to show that you're strong and if you put your mind to it you can do anything. Nothing is worth taking your life for.
And the other thinks it's, ones choice if they want to. And that if they choose to die that the family members and and or other friends should be an understanding of the choice that they've made. And not to be upset or angry at them for it.
I look forward to reading your thoughts.
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what Minty said^. People who are suicidal are not thinking rationally or logically and very often believe that people who are left behind are better off without them. Suicide is the original permanent solution to a temporary problem, the issue being that the poor person concerned will never see it like that. x
It's the person's choice in my opinion. Not everything in this world can be overcome, in fact the only thing anyone can really control is their own mind and if that's telling them the best way to deal with life is not to deal with it any more then that's what is going to happen. People around them are more likely to be upset and angry at themselves for not preventing it and that's the saddest thing left behind.
It's not..IMO an easy way out. I am sure that those who actually go through with it are in a different place..their train of thought not within the bounds of thinking normally. Those who 'do it' IMO are extremely brave however if they are in a different place they aren't even in the real world...so quite honestly..those of us who aren't with the ones in this predicament will never, ever know their train of thought.
Not selfish as they really aren't together with this world. Poor souls who I have much sympathy and understanding of.
Not selfish as they really aren't together with this world. Poor souls who I have much sympathy and understanding of.
As a Samaritan volunteer for three years, I talked to a large number of people in various stages of suicidal thoughts, from the depressed, to the potential suicides, to in a couple of cases, people who did go on to kill themselves, despite the efforts of myself and others to reach them.
From that experience I developed a empathy for suicidal people, without direct understanding based on experience.
Thirty years ago I had a complete psychotic breakdown, I spent three months in a psychiatric hospital, and a year off work, and I remain on medication, probably for life.
From that experience I developed a direct understanding of what suicide means, I only survived by sheer mental strength and willpower.
From my combined experience, I can tell you this much -
Suicides, including methods and reasons, are as unique as the individuals who commit them, every single one is different.
From personal experience, I can tell you that suicide is not a matter of wanting to die, it's purely a matter of being unable to live, which is a very very important distinction.
I can also tell you that, as far as considering the impact on loved ones left behind, such thoughts have been left behind a very long time ago. The suicide is in a place of utter mental and emotional isolation, and thoughts of anyone else are not possible.
That may sound 'selfish' - but we are talking a mental state where on the self actually remains, everything else is lost and unreachable.
The suicdal person is simply unable to continue living feeling this way for another ten seconds, there is no concept of rescue, or help, or being able to reach out for suport, these things are all long gone.
When you reach that stage, death becomes a seriously attractive alternative to what you are living through, you can stop the pain, and stop suffering.
In some cases, you want to hit back one last time, which is why violent suicide is the option for some people.
But be assured, it is not a matter of being 'brave' or 'cowardly' and it is certainly not a matter of thinking about other people.
You just have to want the pain to stop badly enough, to make it stop.
You just have to be desperate enough for some peace.
From that experience I developed a empathy for suicidal people, without direct understanding based on experience.
Thirty years ago I had a complete psychotic breakdown, I spent three months in a psychiatric hospital, and a year off work, and I remain on medication, probably for life.
From that experience I developed a direct understanding of what suicide means, I only survived by sheer mental strength and willpower.
From my combined experience, I can tell you this much -
Suicides, including methods and reasons, are as unique as the individuals who commit them, every single one is different.
From personal experience, I can tell you that suicide is not a matter of wanting to die, it's purely a matter of being unable to live, which is a very very important distinction.
I can also tell you that, as far as considering the impact on loved ones left behind, such thoughts have been left behind a very long time ago. The suicide is in a place of utter mental and emotional isolation, and thoughts of anyone else are not possible.
That may sound 'selfish' - but we are talking a mental state where on the self actually remains, everything else is lost and unreachable.
The suicdal person is simply unable to continue living feeling this way for another ten seconds, there is no concept of rescue, or help, or being able to reach out for suport, these things are all long gone.
When you reach that stage, death becomes a seriously attractive alternative to what you are living through, you can stop the pain, and stop suffering.
In some cases, you want to hit back one last time, which is why violent suicide is the option for some people.
But be assured, it is not a matter of being 'brave' or 'cowardly' and it is certainly not a matter of thinking about other people.
You just have to want the pain to stop badly enough, to make it stop.
You just have to be desperate enough for some peace.
What Andy said
"hold them cheap who never hung there"
No worst, there is none. Pitched past pitch of grief.
BY GERARD MANLEY HOPKINS
No worst, there is none. Pitched past pitch of grief,
More pangs will, schooled at forepangs, wilder wring.
Comforter, where, where is your comforting?
Mary, mother of us, where is your relief?
My cries heave, herds-long; huddle in a main, a chief
Woe, wórld-sorrow; on an áge-old anvil wince and sing —
Then lull, then leave off. Fury had shrieked 'No ling-
ering! Let me be fell: force I must be brief."'
O the mind, mind has mountains; cliffs of fall
Frightful, sheer, no-man-fathomed. Hold them cheap
May who ne'er hung there. Nor does long our small
Durance deal with that steep or deep. Here! creep,
Wretch, under a comfort serves in a whirlwind: all
Life death does end and each day dies with sleep.
"hold them cheap who never hung there"
No worst, there is none. Pitched past pitch of grief.
BY GERARD MANLEY HOPKINS
No worst, there is none. Pitched past pitch of grief,
More pangs will, schooled at forepangs, wilder wring.
Comforter, where, where is your comforting?
Mary, mother of us, where is your relief?
My cries heave, herds-long; huddle in a main, a chief
Woe, wórld-sorrow; on an áge-old anvil wince and sing —
Then lull, then leave off. Fury had shrieked 'No ling-
ering! Let me be fell: force I must be brief."'
O the mind, mind has mountains; cliffs of fall
Frightful, sheer, no-man-fathomed. Hold them cheap
May who ne'er hung there. Nor does long our small
Durance deal with that steep or deep. Here! creep,
Wretch, under a comfort serves in a whirlwind: all
Life death does end and each day dies with sleep.
When the whole world is greyed out there is no thought of it ending, and it seems essential to change the unbearable grey to nothingness , it becomes an almost insatiable hunger for non existence. It is neither hard nor easy, simply a need for the grey to be gone.
Even the red of your own blood seems pointless as if it isn't yours at all.
Even the red of your own blood seems pointless as if it isn't yours at all.
Difficult for me to answer.One of my family members have succeeded in suicide and another one survived an attempt. My Grandad swallowed Lycergic acid after the traumas he suffered in the Great War and died a horrible but tidy death in a home. BIL took overdose of Vodka and paracetamol as a result of a complete mental breakdown and stress as a teacher.I can't read their minds and what torment they both suffered.
I have attended about 30 suicides. My first was a young male wannabee thespian who believed he would never achieve his dream to find his name in lights on the world stage.Like Olivier. He lived out his own tragedy by booking him self into a seedy Sussex GardensHotel,Paddington and entering the shower where he slit his throat with a cut throat razor. I read his suicide note to his parents and as this was my first suicide I was almost reduced to tears. It was a sad tidy,unselfish death and I could not imagine how perceived failure in acting could bring a young man to this dilemma.
Later I attended scenes where a man blew his brains out with a shot gun in his bedroom because his wife discovered his infidelity. I thought you are one coward. Who has to clear the brains and cranium bones off the wallpaper and live with that.
Likewise an awful episode where a young schoolgirl came home from school and found her Dad hanging from the loft drop on the landing.
How I hated these people and thought they were selfish cowards. Do they think so logically about the circumstances when their mind is in a turmoil that I have never experienced to take their life.I don't think so. If I decide I have had enough I'll do it in the most unselfish way with good explanations,if I am able to give them, and no mess for others to clean up. :-(
I have attended about 30 suicides. My first was a young male wannabee thespian who believed he would never achieve his dream to find his name in lights on the world stage.Like Olivier. He lived out his own tragedy by booking him self into a seedy Sussex GardensHotel,Paddington and entering the shower where he slit his throat with a cut throat razor. I read his suicide note to his parents and as this was my first suicide I was almost reduced to tears. It was a sad tidy,unselfish death and I could not imagine how perceived failure in acting could bring a young man to this dilemma.
Later I attended scenes where a man blew his brains out with a shot gun in his bedroom because his wife discovered his infidelity. I thought you are one coward. Who has to clear the brains and cranium bones off the wallpaper and live with that.
Likewise an awful episode where a young schoolgirl came home from school and found her Dad hanging from the loft drop on the landing.
How I hated these people and thought they were selfish cowards. Do they think so logically about the circumstances when their mind is in a turmoil that I have never experienced to take their life.I don't think so. If I decide I have had enough I'll do it in the most unselfish way with good explanations,if I am able to give them, and no mess for others to clean up. :-(
I don't think it's cowardly to kill oneself, I think it takes a lot of courage, or at the very least, desperation. If someone thinks everything can be overcome they haven't been to the depths where one can not cope. Of course the individual is being selfish, at that stage they've every right to be. They have decided that quality of life is more important than length and it's no longer at a level that they can value it. But it's still best if they can find the support to attempt another way.
Ok. Well first I wanted to now say who said and thought what. I just wanted your thoughts first and not to attack the one saying and asking this.
Bob is the one who says suicide is ones choice for them to take their own life.
I'm the one to whom said it's the easy way out.
Now before anyone says I'm wrong. Let me say this:
I to have had suicide attempts and often think the world would be better with out me in it. I have so much pain from my past that it haunts me and my relationships still today. I have done all I could. Councelling and therapy. Became a major drug addict. Went to treatment. Been clean now tho for 8 years. But still fight the demons within.
And yes i attempted suicide. And I'm so grateful I failed. As with the attempts I got to hear from others what my death would if done to them. And I think now I was only being selfish and thinking of myself. Yes the pain would of been gone. But in reality it still can be. It's up to us to decide if we let it affect us. We control or own minds. If we want to live in grey sky's then that's were we will be. But if we want bright blue skys. That's possible to be too.
I today. Still suffer from pain. But I chose not to let it bring me to a dark place. I rather be in the place of where I have the power to do this. To not let myself go so low to the point of the thoughts.
But with that all said. After reading g your thoughts it may have made me consider that one my not be so selfish or is taking the easy way out, if the reason for it was for themself and not to hurt someone else. I think someone would have to have lived a really bad life to end one's life . And I can tell you I lived a bad life. Good at times. But I still walk this life. With bad days and good ones. I just learned how to change my thought thinking and my mind. Mind is control of you life. If you can control your mind. Change thoughts. Then no one is powerless. And if you are powerless. It's because you let yourself get to that point. It's all about how we as one are. There's no excuse for one's own failure but themselves. No one can make you feel something. You control that. No one can make you do things. You control that. I learned that in anger management and I tell ya it really is true. I stopped biting and breaking things. I stopped thinking others mad me sad or angry. If I don't want to feel those and rather be happy. Then that's what I will do. Right. Yes.
Anyway. Thanks for sharing everyone.
I understand Bob better now. I still don't think him attempting to taking his life was ok. As it was for a girl. But I now understand it wasn't because of the girl 100%. And that his new reasons are not imo any real reason to leave this world. Because he choices to let himself think that way when no one else does. He blames himself when no one else does.
Bob is the one who says suicide is ones choice for them to take their own life.
I'm the one to whom said it's the easy way out.
Now before anyone says I'm wrong. Let me say this:
I to have had suicide attempts and often think the world would be better with out me in it. I have so much pain from my past that it haunts me and my relationships still today. I have done all I could. Councelling and therapy. Became a major drug addict. Went to treatment. Been clean now tho for 8 years. But still fight the demons within.
And yes i attempted suicide. And I'm so grateful I failed. As with the attempts I got to hear from others what my death would if done to them. And I think now I was only being selfish and thinking of myself. Yes the pain would of been gone. But in reality it still can be. It's up to us to decide if we let it affect us. We control or own minds. If we want to live in grey sky's then that's were we will be. But if we want bright blue skys. That's possible to be too.
I today. Still suffer from pain. But I chose not to let it bring me to a dark place. I rather be in the place of where I have the power to do this. To not let myself go so low to the point of the thoughts.
But with that all said. After reading g your thoughts it may have made me consider that one my not be so selfish or is taking the easy way out, if the reason for it was for themself and not to hurt someone else. I think someone would have to have lived a really bad life to end one's life . And I can tell you I lived a bad life. Good at times. But I still walk this life. With bad days and good ones. I just learned how to change my thought thinking and my mind. Mind is control of you life. If you can control your mind. Change thoughts. Then no one is powerless. And if you are powerless. It's because you let yourself get to that point. It's all about how we as one are. There's no excuse for one's own failure but themselves. No one can make you feel something. You control that. No one can make you do things. You control that. I learned that in anger management and I tell ya it really is true. I stopped biting and breaking things. I stopped thinking others mad me sad or angry. If I don't want to feel those and rather be happy. Then that's what I will do. Right. Yes.
Anyway. Thanks for sharing everyone.
I understand Bob better now. I still don't think him attempting to taking his life was ok. As it was for a girl. But I now understand it wasn't because of the girl 100%. And that his new reasons are not imo any real reason to leave this world. Because he choices to let himself think that way when no one else does. He blames himself when no one else does.
what is the question?
at present you have said - "some think it is a good idea and some think it is bad"
and I would certainly agree with that
so if someone is so depressed they wish to End It All
you should say - well it is your decision - and tell you what ! I have a bottle of pills just here .....hmmm
I would hold "aiding and abetting a suicide" in mind which I think is still a crime
at present you have said - "some think it is a good idea and some think it is bad"
and I would certainly agree with that
so if someone is so depressed they wish to End It All
you should say - well it is your decision - and tell you what ! I have a bottle of pills just here .....hmmm
I would hold "aiding and abetting a suicide" in mind which I think is still a crime
"And if you are powerless. It's because you let yourself get to that point. It's all about how we as one are. There's no excuse for one's own failure but themselves. No one can make you feel something. You control that. No one can make you do things. You control that. I learned that in anger management and I tell ya it really is true. I stopped biting and breaking things. I stopped thinking others mad me sad or angry. If I don't want to feel those and rather be happy. Then that's what I will do. Right. Yes. "
Lucky you. For some people that is just not possible.
Lucky you. For some people that is just not possible.
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