Jobs & Education1 min ago
Autism – Or A Lack Of Discipline?
41 Answers
So many children are diagnosed as autistic now, but are they really all autistic?
A friend has two children age seven and four. The seven year old started school at four and was fine for a year. Come age five he refused to go and consequently stayed home for the next two years, having regular ‘melt downs’ whenever he was asked to do something he didn’t want to do. The NHS found nothing wrong with him, the original school spotted nothing, but the parents, both professional people very involved in fighting for all sorts of ‘rights’, convinced he is autistic, spent a considerable amount of money to have him diagnosed privately and fought the education department tooth and nail to have him allocated a place in a special school. They eventually got what they wanted and he went to school for a while but now again refuses.
The four year old has now begun to behave similarly, and again the parents are convinced that she too is autistic - along with a couple of badly behaved young cousins - and one or two adults of their acquaintance who happen to choose their company carefully rather than embrace the dubious pleasures of making friends with all and sundry. It seems that everyone around them is ‘autistic’.
I have my doubts. Is this a ‘fashion’ thing? I can’t help thinking that the four year old has learned this behaviour from her older brother. He gets away with it and now so does she. These children are never disciplined in any way. They are never told they’re wrong and they are never told ‘No’. They want sweets, they get sweets, and they cannot be told, for example, to put their coats on. It has to be broached as a ‘suggestion’. ‘Shall we put our coats on?’ Anything else results in a ‘melt down’. It seems to me that the children are making the rules and, because the parents are intent on preventing ‘melt downs’ and treating the 'condition' with understanding, the children have no borders and hence, no guidance.
Your thoughts?
A friend has two children age seven and four. The seven year old started school at four and was fine for a year. Come age five he refused to go and consequently stayed home for the next two years, having regular ‘melt downs’ whenever he was asked to do something he didn’t want to do. The NHS found nothing wrong with him, the original school spotted nothing, but the parents, both professional people very involved in fighting for all sorts of ‘rights’, convinced he is autistic, spent a considerable amount of money to have him diagnosed privately and fought the education department tooth and nail to have him allocated a place in a special school. They eventually got what they wanted and he went to school for a while but now again refuses.
The four year old has now begun to behave similarly, and again the parents are convinced that she too is autistic - along with a couple of badly behaved young cousins - and one or two adults of their acquaintance who happen to choose their company carefully rather than embrace the dubious pleasures of making friends with all and sundry. It seems that everyone around them is ‘autistic’.
I have my doubts. Is this a ‘fashion’ thing? I can’t help thinking that the four year old has learned this behaviour from her older brother. He gets away with it and now so does she. These children are never disciplined in any way. They are never told they’re wrong and they are never told ‘No’. They want sweets, they get sweets, and they cannot be told, for example, to put their coats on. It has to be broached as a ‘suggestion’. ‘Shall we put our coats on?’ Anything else results in a ‘melt down’. It seems to me that the children are making the rules and, because the parents are intent on preventing ‘melt downs’ and treating the 'condition' with understanding, the children have no borders and hence, no guidance.
Your thoughts?
Answers
As someone who is on the "Autism Spectrum" but was not diagnosed until I was in my late 20s, I do feel that it is a catch-all phrase for parents with naughty children. I find that it is similar to ADHD which is another one that gets mentioned a lot. If your child doesnt behave itself, you as a parent need to control them. I appreciate that dealing with children who...
15:57 Mon 10th Jun 2019
You're quite right Ag, it's a massive learning curve for both child and parents and everyone is different.
Giving the child ways to cope and express their feelings [often of terror] as they run or hide or scream is essential and without a diagnosis will at least go part way to letting those involved in your child's life what to look for.
Can autistic be naughty? - yes, they're children and that is dealt with as in any other situation.
Giving the child ways to cope and express their feelings [often of terror] as they run or hide or scream is essential and without a diagnosis will at least go part way to letting those involved in your child's life what to look for.
Can autistic be naughty? - yes, they're children and that is dealt with as in any other situation.
To return to my original point - I do believe there is a tendency for modern parents who lack basic parenting skills, to look for a 'label' in order to excuse themselves for the responsibility for their child's bad behaviour and attitudes.
This should be strongly resisted by the education and medical professionals, who should be willing to point out the simple fact -
"No Mr Weakmind, Petunia is not autistic, she is simply a wilful little girl, and you are letting her rule your family. Get a grip, and get some parenting classes."
This should be strongly resisted by the education and medical professionals, who should be willing to point out the simple fact -
"No Mr Weakmind, Petunia is not autistic, she is simply a wilful little girl, and you are letting her rule your family. Get a grip, and get some parenting classes."
well thank the lordy you lot are not involved closely with autistic children writes know-all Peter Pedant
I thought it all kicked off yesterday with Kanner ( and I REALLY do expect Sqad to say - oh, yeah, him) and
The adrenalin blood pressure curves in dementia praecox and the emotional psychoses
L Kanner - American Journal of Psychiatry, 1928 -
Of the thirty-four selected cases of dementia præcox, fifteen were of the catatonic, thirteen of
the hebephrenic, four of the paranoid, one of the simple and one of the mixed catatonic and
hebephrenic type. In order to eliminate the possible effect of physical diseases.... blah blah blah it goes on.
but Kanner sets the world alight instead with his 1943 paper, compared to 1928 is only yesterday
Autistic disturbances of affective contact
which is here
http://
and from there one could read
https:/
Autism seems to have been Kanners bird really
are these children not really ill
but just naughty and so you beat them ?
I hope the references above lead just one to change his mind
I thought it all kicked off yesterday with Kanner ( and I REALLY do expect Sqad to say - oh, yeah, him) and
The adrenalin blood pressure curves in dementia praecox and the emotional psychoses
L Kanner - American Journal of Psychiatry, 1928 -
Of the thirty-four selected cases of dementia præcox, fifteen were of the catatonic, thirteen of
the hebephrenic, four of the paranoid, one of the simple and one of the mixed catatonic and
hebephrenic type. In order to eliminate the possible effect of physical diseases.... blah blah blah it goes on.
but Kanner sets the world alight instead with his 1943 paper, compared to 1928 is only yesterday
Autistic disturbances of affective contact
which is here
http://
and from there one could read
https:/
Autism seems to have been Kanners bird really
are these children not really ill
but just naughty and so you beat them ?
I hope the references above lead just one to change his mind
Andy //This should be strongly resisted by the education and medical professionals//
In my case, there have been any amount of different professionals who follow specific guidelines in order to establish a genuine diagnosis.
It is an extremely lengthy process and any parent seeking to pull a fast one are almost certainly going to be exposed.
Children can score highly in tests and be observed in a favourable light at play in different environments thus casting significant doubts in placing the child on the spectrum.
In my case, there have been any amount of different professionals who follow specific guidelines in order to establish a genuine diagnosis.
It is an extremely lengthy process and any parent seeking to pull a fast one are almost certainly going to be exposed.
Children can score highly in tests and be observed in a favourable light at play in different environments thus casting significant doubts in placing the child on the spectrum.
Peter Pedant...
I understand where you are coming from, Autism is a medical condition that effects the brain chemistry and so the children are not "acting up" because they want to, they just cant help it. However, speaking as someone who has been diagnosed with Aspbergers, I suffer on a daily basis to cope with the world outside, I have so many things that trigger me but my Father understood from an early age that I needed to be taught to do things differently and to understand things differently. Did this mean that I was allowed to be naughty because of it? No. When I did something wrong, whether because I was being naughty or because I was having an episode, I was calmed down and then spoken to about how this was inappropriate behaviour. This means that now whenever something triggers me, I can deal with it like an adult and not affect the world around me.
Was this the right way? I dont know but it worked for me so it might just work for others and stop so many naughty children being labeled as autistic when they are just being naughty to get the attention. The last thing children need these days is to be singled out as different when they dont need to be.
I understand where you are coming from, Autism is a medical condition that effects the brain chemistry and so the children are not "acting up" because they want to, they just cant help it. However, speaking as someone who has been diagnosed with Aspbergers, I suffer on a daily basis to cope with the world outside, I have so many things that trigger me but my Father understood from an early age that I needed to be taught to do things differently and to understand things differently. Did this mean that I was allowed to be naughty because of it? No. When I did something wrong, whether because I was being naughty or because I was having an episode, I was calmed down and then spoken to about how this was inappropriate behaviour. This means that now whenever something triggers me, I can deal with it like an adult and not affect the world around me.
Was this the right way? I dont know but it worked for me so it might just work for others and stop so many naughty children being labeled as autistic when they are just being naughty to get the attention. The last thing children need these days is to be singled out as different when they dont need to be.
It's hard to know where to start here. As ag says, it is far from easy to get a diagnosis. It can't be done by parents or GPs, it has to be a pediatrician or psychiatrist. They are very, very reluctant to "label" a child with anything unless they are 100% sure.
My son showed signs from 8 months at the most, at 5 he was diagnosed with sensory processing disorder (which is strongly related) "with autistic traits" as they won't call it that without absolutely knowing and was eventually diagnosed at 8. It took home visits and visits to the school to see how he interacted with others and many tests and observations.
There is no actual advantage in it, except that you can learn how to approach things the most effective way for that child.
In the end, every parent wants their child to become a well-balanced, happy, independent adult. The only question is which way will work best to achieve that.
My youngest who is autistic, needs so much less discipline than my others, as he already puts that on himself. He leaves to walk to school at 7:43, no earlier or later. He has never argued with me and won't let his room get messy or accept money given to him. My job is to teach him some flexibility.
It is never a case of getting an appointment and a diagnosis, or paying for one. And neither is it an excuse, but a method to get to the same point in the end.
My son showed signs from 8 months at the most, at 5 he was diagnosed with sensory processing disorder (which is strongly related) "with autistic traits" as they won't call it that without absolutely knowing and was eventually diagnosed at 8. It took home visits and visits to the school to see how he interacted with others and many tests and observations.
There is no actual advantage in it, except that you can learn how to approach things the most effective way for that child.
In the end, every parent wants their child to become a well-balanced, happy, independent adult. The only question is which way will work best to achieve that.
My youngest who is autistic, needs so much less discipline than my others, as he already puts that on himself. He leaves to walk to school at 7:43, no earlier or later. He has never argued with me and won't let his room get messy or accept money given to him. My job is to teach him some flexibility.
It is never a case of getting an appointment and a diagnosis, or paying for one. And neither is it an excuse, but a method to get to the same point in the end.
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