ChatterBank4 mins ago
Do Schools Fine Parents For Taking Children On Holiday During Term Time?
By what right do schools fine parents for taking children out of school during term time? Perhaps 'fine' is technically the wrong word. I thought only courts could fine people when an offence, punishable by a fine, has been committed and this has been proved in a court of law. I know that it is an offence for a parent or guardian to fail to send a child to school (leave aside home schooling), but this was challenged a while ago when somebody showed that his daughter had something like 97% attendance, which could not be described as a 'failure' to send her to school, and I think he won his case. Is the 'fine' backed up by, if you don't pay we will exclude your child from this school? These stories in the newspapers seem to miss out any court cases -- all you read is that the school fined the parents. Perhaps the parents plead guilty by letter to a letter from a court. Does the money go to the school or to 'central funds'?
Answers
//So the local authority extracts the fine -- but again, by what right? How can they do it without going to court?// As has been explained, there is legislation which allows "out of court" disposals. There are many of these and the most common have been mentioned (parking and speeding). The person accused is offered a way to settle the matter without it going to...
13:16 Fri 19th Jul 2019
I've just watched this item on Jeremy Vine regarding a young mum being fined nearly £800 for keeping her children off school last December to take them on holiday,she's just had a cancer all clear and wanted to celebrate, I think the problem lies with the tour operators and airlines, they should be brought to task for the outlandish prices they charge in holiday time
The fines are levied by the local council.
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>they should be brought to task for the outlandish prices they charge in holiday time
There is competition though, so it's simply supply and demand. They couldn't cope with the demand if they reduced holiday prices in July and August.
Perhaps they are charging the right price in summer but offer discounts during the off-peak periods in order to generate demand to fill vacant seats and hotel rooms
There is competition though, so it's simply supply and demand. They couldn't cope with the demand if they reduced holiday prices in July and August.
Perhaps they are charging the right price in summer but offer discounts during the off-peak periods in order to generate demand to fill vacant seats and hotel rooms
> regarding a young mum being fined nearly £800 for keeping her children off school last December to take them on holiday,she's just had a cancer all clear and wanted to celebrate.
Maybe she could have waited until later in December.
Helping students catch up who miss lessons is a real pain for teachers.
Maybe she could have waited until later in December.
Helping students catch up who miss lessons is a real pain for teachers.
The fines continue to increase, it doesn't seem to deter as many parents as thought.
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Has there been any research into just how much "education" a child misses in being away for a week? I've never heard anybody say "oh, that poor child, look how much they've missed by being off sick for a week", but take a weeks holiday due to parents working arrangements and people seem to think the child is ruined for life.
dannyk13 has answered my question, pretty well. Also the fact that the chap who challenged the local authority ultimately lost his case when the Department of Education took the case to the Supreme Court -- he had won in two lower courts. So the local authority extracts the fine -- but again, by what right? How can they do it without going to court? There may be an element of: you're obviously guilty, you can't plead not guilty, so we'll cut out the middle man, just pay this money and it will all be over. If you challenge this you'll get a much bigger fine with costs on top.
> Has there been any research into just how much "education" a child misses in being away for a week?
Many schools have posters on the walls showing statistics on how attendance levels and grades are correlated. I'm not sure how valid the analysis is but it stands to reason that missing any time at all has an impact, however small. If you feel one week is insignificant what about two weeks... or three... or a month..
Now some parents ask that we send them notes on the lessons they are missing and set tasks for them to do- so maybe those pupils don't miss as much, but it's a real pain for the teachers.
Having said that, some pupils waste most of their time in school (no pens, no books, never do a stroke of work and disrupt he class- it's a welcome relief if they are off sick or on holiday and they don't lose out any more than usual
Many schools have posters on the walls showing statistics on how attendance levels and grades are correlated. I'm not sure how valid the analysis is but it stands to reason that missing any time at all has an impact, however small. If you feel one week is insignificant what about two weeks... or three... or a month..
Now some parents ask that we send them notes on the lessons they are missing and set tasks for them to do- so maybe those pupils don't miss as much, but it's a real pain for the teachers.
Having said that, some pupils waste most of their time in school (no pens, no books, never do a stroke of work and disrupt he class- it's a welcome relief if they are off sick or on holiday and they don't lose out any more than usual
"The cash goes to LEAs to cover admin costs, but it's not actually ring-fenced and so could be spent on anything."
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There's no need for a court case as the "fine" is a Fixed Penalty Notice -- essentially it's the same as a Parking Ticket.
Also, I'm not sure which case you are referring to, but the most recent court case I am aware of, at the Supreme Court, saw the parent lose their case as the judges held that "regular" attendance means "in accordance with the school's rules". (Isle of Wight Council v. Platt, 2017 UKSC 28)
Also, I'm not sure which case you are referring to, but the most recent court case I am aware of, at the Supreme Court, saw the parent lose their case as the judges held that "regular" attendance means "in accordance with the school's rules". (Isle of Wight Council v. Platt, 2017 UKSC 28)
The legislation allowing English Local Education Authorities to impose a penalty is the Education (Penalty Notices) (England) Regulations 2007.
The penalty can be imposed for each pupil and each parent.
Local Authorities have differing practices with some issuing the penalty to one parent only and some asking for £60 regardless of how many pupils in the family are absent.
The penalty can be imposed for each pupil and each parent.
Local Authorities have differing practices with some issuing the penalty to one parent only and some asking for £60 regardless of how many pupils in the family are absent.
Thanks, Mamyalynne. That just about clears it up. But, as with most legislation, there's a loophole. The section reads: The parent of every child of compulsory school age shall cause him to receive efficient full-time education suitable— (a)to his age, ability and aptitude, and (b)to any special educational needs he may have,
either by regular attendance at school or otherwise.
The loophole is "otherwise". A parent could argue that a foreign (or UK) holiday could be educational. Tricky, but not impossible, I should think. If I could have two best answers, the Corbyloon would get another vote. And, jim360, the IoW case you refer to was the one I was referring to in my original question. danny13k's link to the Sun article covers it.
either by regular attendance at school or otherwise.
The loophole is "otherwise". A parent could argue that a foreign (or UK) holiday could be educational. Tricky, but not impossible, I should think. If I could have two best answers, the Corbyloon would get another vote. And, jim360, the IoW case you refer to was the one I was referring to in my original question. danny13k's link to the Sun article covers it.
In that case, as I say the parent lost his case, rather than won it (possibly the confusion comes from the fact that he did win at the High Court, but this has since been overturned).
I don't agree that "otherwise" provides the loophole you mention, which refers to the possibility of home-schooling. Once a child is sent to and registered in a school then that's where they are being formally educated, and pulling out for a school holiday during term-time, at least if not authorised by the school, is in breach of their rules and so in breach of the "in regular attendance at school" part of the clause.
I should say that I don't object in principle to parents taking their children on holidays, even in term time, but only if there's an agreement with the school. Otherwise it's breaking rules and seems to set a bad example to the child to show contempt for authority.
I don't agree that "otherwise" provides the loophole you mention, which refers to the possibility of home-schooling. Once a child is sent to and registered in a school then that's where they are being formally educated, and pulling out for a school holiday during term-time, at least if not authorised by the school, is in breach of their rules and so in breach of the "in regular attendance at school" part of the clause.
I should say that I don't object in principle to parents taking their children on holidays, even in term time, but only if there's an agreement with the school. Otherwise it's breaking rules and seems to set a bad example to the child to show contempt for authority.
//So the local authority extracts the fine -- but again, by what right? How can they do it without going to court?//
As has been explained, there is legislation which allows "out of court" disposals. There are many of these and the most common have been mentioned (parking and speeding). The person accused is offered a way to settle the matter without it going to court. It involves no admission of guilt, no plea and no conviction. Strictly speaking the money paid is not a "fine". It is (variously, depending on what it's for) either a Fixed Penalty or a Penalty Charge.
For school attendance matters the parent(s) can always decline or refuse to pay the penalty offered by the Local Authority (LA). It would then be up to the LA to take court proceedings in the Magistrates' Court. If the parent(s) pleaded Not Guilty the LA would then have to prove its case to the criminal standard (beyond reasonable doubt) to secure a conviction.
A couple of things have happened in recent years. Firstly in 2013 the Dept for Education revised its guidelines to Head Teachers on the granting of "exceptional leave of absence". This tightened considerably the schools' discretion to grant leave and simply taking holidays in term time was near enough ruled out. Then the case of Platt (already mentioned) clarified what "attending regularly" meant in school terms. It is now far more difficult for parents to take children out of school in term time (which is as it should be) but a trip to Gatwick Airport outside the school holidays will demonstrate that the penalties levied are hopelessly inadequate.
As an aside, the maximum penalty under S444 (1A) of the Education Act (under which prosecutions are brought where a parent knowingly fails to secure a child's attendance at school) is three month's custody. Custodial sentences for the offence, however, are extremely rare.
As has been explained, there is legislation which allows "out of court" disposals. There are many of these and the most common have been mentioned (parking and speeding). The person accused is offered a way to settle the matter without it going to court. It involves no admission of guilt, no plea and no conviction. Strictly speaking the money paid is not a "fine". It is (variously, depending on what it's for) either a Fixed Penalty or a Penalty Charge.
For school attendance matters the parent(s) can always decline or refuse to pay the penalty offered by the Local Authority (LA). It would then be up to the LA to take court proceedings in the Magistrates' Court. If the parent(s) pleaded Not Guilty the LA would then have to prove its case to the criminal standard (beyond reasonable doubt) to secure a conviction.
A couple of things have happened in recent years. Firstly in 2013 the Dept for Education revised its guidelines to Head Teachers on the granting of "exceptional leave of absence". This tightened considerably the schools' discretion to grant leave and simply taking holidays in term time was near enough ruled out. Then the case of Platt (already mentioned) clarified what "attending regularly" meant in school terms. It is now far more difficult for parents to take children out of school in term time (which is as it should be) but a trip to Gatwick Airport outside the school holidays will demonstrate that the penalties levied are hopelessly inadequate.
As an aside, the maximum penalty under S444 (1A) of the Education Act (under which prosecutions are brought where a parent knowingly fails to secure a child's attendance at school) is three month's custody. Custodial sentences for the offence, however, are extremely rare.
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