alcoholism... illness or not??

[littlemissx]

i see people have been discussing this so i just want to hear peoples opinions.

my view is unless you have been an alcoholic then you cant judge someone else. you dont know when you take your first drink that you will become addicted. Alcohol is by far a worse drug than drugs themselves as it is legal and it is so readily available!!!

[Slooow_Jo]

I lost my dad to 'alcoholism' 5 1/2 years ago, he was only 52 !!

I would prefer to think he was ill rather than he was selfish & done it to himself !!

He was living a battle !!

[jake-the-peg]

I gave up alcohol nearly five years ago now. I used to get through about a litre of spirits, 4-5 bottles of wine and some beer in a week.

Not exactly Oliver Reed but I couldn't remember the last day when I'd not had a drink.

I'd say most alcoholics are like that, not rolling in the gutter, but able to function reasonably well - just feel the need to drink, even if nobody else is.

It's not something that's easy to understand if you don't feel the same. It's also very hard to realise that it's a problem - personally I started to realise it was when Rennies started to be a regular grocery item.

Oh and I believe there's really quite strong evidence for an inherited tendency to alcoholism

[littlemissx]

i also believe that its hereditary and i think that there is evidence to prove that x

[LazyGun]

I think its a fair comment that one shouldn't be judgemental of others unless you have some personal experience. Thats not to say you cannot have an opinion however; you dont need to have taken heroin or crack cocaine to know that its likely to be a self damaging activity!

Its likely that genetics plays some part in the process of alcohol addiction.....its certainly true to say that different people act differently to the effects of alcohol, and that is probably based to a degree on their genetic makeup. Personally, as far as addiction goes, I think a proportion of the population has a genetic predisposition to addictive behaviour... the substance or activity they become addicted to is down to familial history, and their own life experiences and exposure.

[Octavius]

Addiction is a compulsion to repeat a behavior regardless of its consequences. Within this you have physical (effected by withdrawal) and psychological addicitons (of the mind, such as eating disorders). These can be good or bad depending on your view and the addiction. For example and adrenalin junkie can be addicted to extreme sports, which can be dangerous of course.

I do believe that alcoholism (and perhaps other addictions such as drug or gambling) do become an illness over a period of time. You don't need personal experience to have an opinion but if someone close to you is addicted, then this has a profound effect on the way you view their illness because you can see that they are not able to control their actions and the persons health (physical) and mind (psychological) deteriorates over time. It is a sad decline and I have experienced seeing someone do this . Fortunately they reached a point where one more drink would kill them, and they have (so far) stopped. Others are not so lucky.

The fact that it is legal has no bearing. Anything can be addictive, I like a lot of coffee, my gf likes shopping, my friend really likes gambling and another friend is a chain smoker. Everyone has an addiction of some kind, even if it is watching reality TV or Eastenders.

[kick3m0n]

my father was an alcoholic and so that has largely shaped my view on the subject. Unfortunately he was a nasty drunk to be around yet to those outside the family, he was mr congenial who held down a responsible job. At home, he just became more unpredictable and deceitful. The kind of man he was shaped the kind of alcoholic he became. He never accepted he had a problem or made any attempt to give up. Eventually, thankfully, mum left him. I dreaded that she'd be left with him and forced to nurse him through a hideous drink related death, was so glad she was spared that. He died of a heart attack, estranged from his family. My personal view is that yes, alcholism may well be an illness, but the individual who has it has a massive say in whether they can control it or not. I do understand there are people who just can't give up drink, despite a very genuine desire to quit. But there are those who are too weak willed and self-centred to give up, despite the cost to their family, and themselves. Some, who focus solely on their own needs, it's easier to hide in the bottom of a bottle, than find the courage to face up to the sh1t you've caused.

Hereditary? Maybe, but my brother and I are in our 30s, and neither of us drink to excess. I rarely drink at all. Is it a result of growing up with a drunk and having a desire to not turn out like that? If so, it wasn't a conscious decision. I do feel strongly that even if it IS an inherited disposition, then it is not inevitable that you will succumb. If I knew many of my family had developed lung cancer, I wouldn't smoke, and if many of my female relatives had had breast cancer, I'd get screened regularly. Our younger generation are growing up in such a drink culture, that they may be unable to realise the danger until it's too late.

[littlemissx]

also i have been told that it can skip a generation

[kick3m0n]

just wanted to add that I do know some alcoholics who have given up drink. I know what a tremendously difficult, daily battle it is for them. They, and others like them, have my unending support and admiration for their courage.

[NiceCupOfTea]

As I mentioned in one of the George Best posts, my dad is a bac alcoholic unable to function normally as he cannot drink in moderation. I don't think of it as an illness but an addiction that makes you ill. I see it as being in the same class as heroin. They both dramatically alter your behaviour, are extremelly hard to give up and addicts would do anything for their next hit. The difference is that alcohol is legal here, whereas heroin isn't. He has tried to give up booze using tablets that make you ill if you imbibe alcohol, but always goes back. As for the genetic disposition, Dad had an alcoholic uncle and his brother used to be alcoholic. My sister and I are not, however, alcoholic though we can get through a fair bit on a wild night out! By the way, he lives in Switzerland which has an extraordinaryily high rate of alcoholism.

[joko]

I know some people just have an addictive personality - I am fortunate that I don't. I have dabbled with most drugs - except crack and heroin, and never felt any compulsion to do it regularly, it was more opportune moments at parties etc.

What angers me about alcoholics (and other drug users) is when they return to using, even after they have been through a lot to get sober or clean.

I can understand, when in the grip of it, the addiction controls the users actions - but when they are sober the physical addiction is no longer there and it is purely a mental desire, and knowing the trouble and damage they have caused themselves and others, they still start again - that i find unforgiveable

[Hippy]

Joko

Every fibre of your body screams for a shot of booze as you go past the off-licence. At this time of year you enjoy a nice story on TV and then Wollop! Adverts for cheery and sooooo cheap booze come up in glorious techno-tox. Even though you (that is me...) have decided "never again, truly!" and have been sober for years, and know the deadly slide that alcohol really is, your cells are gravitating towards the flickering oh so wonderfully beautiful bottle with the twinkling liquid. The brain is busy telling how that you can easily afford it, no-one will know, you will easily be able to stop at just one sip. etc etc (all lies of course, but it is so easy to believe)

I think you maybe just glimpse the daily, hourly tussle going on in the mind and body of an alcoholic. There will be those who go back to the booze after all the earnest decisions and denial. No pity please, but support for those who want to change. For those who do not then there is really nothing you can do. Stand well back.

[jake-the-peg]

I gave up for 8 months the first time, I thought that after that sort of time I'd proven to myself that I could handle social drinking. - I was wrong. Within a year I was back in the same pattern.

It's easy to think you can learn from experience, especially when you see other people around you drinking - I guess there must be people who've sucessfully gone back to "social drinking" but I reckon they're few and far between.

Don't despise people who've failed to give up. At least they've admitted that they need to try and that's a big step

[Octavius]

Joko, do you find it equally unforgiveable that someone will give up smoking for a few days and then start up again once they are in a social atmosphere?

Contrary to finding it unforgiveable a person should be admired for the initial will power and encouraged to have the strength to try again until the addiction is overcome.

I wish if ever I was unfortunate enough to fall into a spiral of harmful addiction, were then to recover, but fall in again that the people closest to me would be able to stand by me and encourage me to recover once more, without treating me like a naughty little doggy.

[ll_billym]

I cannot accept that addiction is an illness, having an "addictive personality" or getting addicted to an activity or substance that is bad for you should not, in my book, be called an illness as this appears to take away some responsibility from the person in question and provides somewhat of an excuse.

I accept that we can have an argument about the semantics of the word "illness" and discuss mental conditions that compel people to do bad things but the gist of my views on this is that the situation can be stopped immediately by one thing, willpower. No other according to Doyle illness, desease or condition can be stopped by the power of the mind alone and it is this that, I believe, sets addiction apart.

I am seriously not getting on my high horse over this, giving up smoking is something I would really like to do but am too scared to try as I think it will show me up to be weak, I drink too much, I have friends addicted to heroin and people I went to school with have died from it.

But I think that calling addiction an illness provides a ready excuse and is no help to the person in question, and we all want to help them and ourselves don't we??

[joko]

I was referring to people like goerge best and those who have destroyed the lives of the family and friends, who steal and lie and then eventually give up drinking - and then, knowing the pain and damage they have caused - and will cause again....go and do it all over again!!

that is what i find unforgivable.

if you are not hurting anyone then go right ahead but you inevitable are.

i understand getting into it in the first place and the overwhelming temptation, but some things are more important

just look at george best... yes its sad that he has died and i feel for his family - but what about the person who may now be dead for the want of a new liver - the one GB was given? what about the family of the person whose liver he received? - he knew he couldn't drink and yet he did, despite the begging and pleas from his family

and yes, if the smoker has been told that if they smoke again they will die, and they start smoking again, then that is unforgivable - unless the person isn't going to hurt anyone by doing this and dying - but lets face it most have someone who'd be upset at their passing, particularly kids

[littlemissx]

ah but joko George Best did try several times to give up, he tried for all his family and friends. but he wasnt strong enough to do it. this didnt make him a bad person. even up to his last days he tried.... he published his picture in the paper so he could show other people its not a nice way to die... if that picture helps just one person then surely we have to thank George Best for that.

All i hope now is that his family can grieve without the constant annoyance of the press and fans being on their doorsteps.

[jake-the-peg]

billy - has a good point in that addiction is not an illness.

After all you tend to recover from them!

The experiment that sticks in my mind was where rats were given a dilute alcohol rather than water to drink. After a period of time another bottle of pure water was introduced most switched but some continued to choose the alcohol. The mice were bred from and a the experiment repeated. Critically many of the offspring of those that chose alcohol made the same choice.

I'm afraid I can't find the reference to this experiment so I don't know how reliable it was but it does suggest a possible genetic tendency to shall we say "make poor choices"

[Octavius]

Medical science is adamant in conclusion that alcoholism (and addiction) are well-established disease processes, comprised of genetic, physiologic, and mental illness components.

There is definitely an element of choice at the begining, and it does have social dimensions, but some of us are physically more susceptible than others. Many of us will have dabbled with alcohol (et al) without becomming alcoholics or have smoked the odd cigarette without becoming a smoker.

I am not 'making excuses' or providing a way out for people who do succumb, but you should appreciate that in most cases once a level of addiciton is reached it does become an illness (albeit of the mind and often the body). Please don't preach to me about willpower etcetera, you are just stating the bleedin' obvious. Remember when you go on that new diet or give up chocolate for lent, that summing up the willpower and maintaining the momentum is not always as easy as some of you would have believe.

[LordyGeordie]

There is evidence to suggest that some addictions are genetic.

For example, Native Americans, did not have alcohol until the arrival of european settlers, as we in europe did not have tobacco until the discovery of america.

i'm not saying that every native american has a genetic disposition towards alcoholism nor is every european immune from it as that is obviously not the case.

However, alcohol has decimated many native american tribes, especially the inuits, now there are other contributing factors such as high social deprivation, the eroding of culture etc, but even given that there is a much higher than average rate of alcoholism.

on the other hand, native americans, who have been using tobacco for thousands of years longer than we have, do not have nearly the same rate of heavy smokers as there are in europe. obviously there are native americans who smoke regularly, but many of them do not understand the concept of the guy who's on 60 a day and has to breathe through a hole in his throat because he's had half his neck cut out.

[Buttercup]

OK - I know i am not going to be able to write this as clearly as I'd like...

I am an alcoholic and I struggle with it being an illness, probably more than most people who aren't. Alcoholism is not just about drinking or not drinking; Hippy described what it's like very well. Once alcoholics put down the drink (and often drugs) and get over the physical withdrawel we still have the mental obsession to contend with. This will probably always be with us. I think of alcoholism more like a disease like diabetes (and before anyone has a go I am diabetic too!), what I mean by that is it cannot be cured as such but it can be controlled. So can addiction, however it is not easy and the most successful way at the moment is through Alcoholics Anonymous and other similar 12 Step programs; goign to regular meetings and working with and talking to other alcoholics on a daily basis is like me taking my insulin every day. However it is not guarenteed, there are so many factors which can severely hinder recovery. One of the reasons people relapse is because life becomes so much harder when we stop drinking as we feel feelings for the first time in our lives and don't know how to deal with them, so often pick up again purely to make them stop. Anyone who labels us weak does so because they have liitle understanding of alcohilism, and how could they? It really is a case of you have to have been there to really know what it's like. 'Normal' people vary rarely get it.
Hope some of that made sense and helped! If not I am happy to answer any questions.