Staying Safe In Manchester.....
ChatterBank0 min ago
i predict a riot
what are your views about the posible breakdown in the fabric of society due to us being swamped by migrants from various other countries?
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Britain has had migrants since before it was Britain. They include Romans, Celts, Angles, Saxons, Normans and millions more. Everyone is either a migrant or descended from one. At present, migrants are all that keep the health service and education system going; kick them out and you'll really see society break down.
I agree that it is an issue but I don't think that society will break down because of it.
The biggest problem at the moment are illegal immigrants, the government needs to get a handle on exactly who comes in, once this is controlled we can at least make a decision on whether this number is too large.
Another problem is crime, I watched a program on pickpockets and shoplifters in Oxford St and every one of them were immigrants, mainly Eastern European. There are a lot of drugs gangs controlled by immigrants also, mainly Asian. Other ethnic minorities do make up a sizeable percentage of the gun/knife/drugs/armed robbery crime figures but a lot of them were born here so don't qualify as immigrants.
The ones that want to blow us all up are fortunately a very small minority and are disowned by most in their religion.
Most immigrants add to society, lead honest lives and do the jobs that natives don't want to do and, as jno says, if they all left us tomorrow our society would break down.
IMHO.
The biggest problem at the moment are illegal immigrants, the government needs to get a handle on exactly who comes in, once this is controlled we can at least make a decision on whether this number is too large.
Another problem is crime, I watched a program on pickpockets and shoplifters in Oxford St and every one of them were immigrants, mainly Eastern European. There are a lot of drugs gangs controlled by immigrants also, mainly Asian. Other ethnic minorities do make up a sizeable percentage of the gun/knife/drugs/armed robbery crime figures but a lot of them were born here so don't qualify as immigrants.
The ones that want to blow us all up are fortunately a very small minority and are disowned by most in their religion.
Most immigrants add to society, lead honest lives and do the jobs that natives don't want to do and, as jno says, if they all left us tomorrow our society would break down.
IMHO.
enoch powell said a similar thing in 1968, and hitler before him, i'm sorry but the nasty part of human nature will always be stirred up in some people, encouraging them to put labels on soft targets because it suits their purpose...
i can't be bothered to expand on this i agree with nox division and bigots and racists (regardless of colour) form all sides will lead to any breakdown, if you constantly refer to "them" instead of "us" (human beings) we will never get along and the extremists from both sides win... very depressing indeed
i can't be bothered to expand on this i agree with nox division and bigots and racists (regardless of colour) form all sides will lead to any breakdown, if you constantly refer to "them" instead of "us" (human beings) we will never get along and the extremists from both sides win... very depressing indeed
At risk of being flamed, I have to say that with the climate the way it is, Enoch Powell was correct.
People are quick to call his 'Rivers Of Blood' speech racist ~ however he made several points in which the majority of the population agree with eg. welcoming immigrants training for work, or already skilled immigrants.
There can be no doubt that the immigration programme has resulted in violence in a lot of communities eg.caste vs caste fighting, as well as previously 'tolerant' (I hate that word!) folk getting their knickers in twists and teetering on the racist corner..simply because the government have failed to exercise proper control.
I have always welcomed the idea of immigration ~ as has been mentioned, it is what our country was built on! however the way things are going now, I do feel as if it has all got out of hand.
I don't see how Mr Powell could be compared to Hitler. Or maybe I am seriously misinformed!
People are quick to call his 'Rivers Of Blood' speech racist ~ however he made several points in which the majority of the population agree with eg. welcoming immigrants training for work, or already skilled immigrants.
There can be no doubt that the immigration programme has resulted in violence in a lot of communities eg.caste vs caste fighting, as well as previously 'tolerant' (I hate that word!) folk getting their knickers in twists and teetering on the racist corner..simply because the government have failed to exercise proper control.
I have always welcomed the idea of immigration ~ as has been mentioned, it is what our country was built on! however the way things are going now, I do feel as if it has all got out of hand.
I don't see how Mr Powell could be compared to Hitler. Or maybe I am seriously misinformed!
The same old tired arguments surface every time this topic is aired. �Britain has always had immigrants� - �Immigrants run the health service� � �valuable contribution to society� etc etc. Sensible debate is stifled by accusations of bigotry and racism.
Some of this may be true, some of it may not � you could argue all day so I'll not bother. However, it is quite clear that this country cannot sustain the level of immigration (either legal or illegal) that it has seen in the past few years. Whether newcomers pay their way or not (and I�m not entirely sure that overall they do, but I�ll not argue) there are shortages of resources that either money cannot buy or in which the government is not willing to sufficiently invest.
In the South East in particular (where most people seem to want to settle) there is insufficient water, housing, education, medical facilities, road space and public transport. Apart from housing (see below) no plans exist to properly tackle any of these problems. To contemplate allowing ever increasing numbers of people to enter the country whilst this persists is absolute lunacy.
There is talk of building a million homes in the South East over the next 20 years � an idea that horrifies many people. However, net immigration to the UK in 2004 was 342,000, with numbers for 2005 expected to be very much higher. How far will the 1m homes go when faced with those numbers?
Immigration is now on an unprecedented scale and the arguments that were previously valid no longer hold good. So, to people who plan to come here, my reply would be: If you�re coming here to work: we don�t need you. We�ve got 1m people already unemployed and we�ll get them to do a bit first. If you�re coming here to flee persecution: sorry, you�re too late. We�re full right up. If this sensible approach makes me a racist or a bigot, then that must be what I am. But I�m not alone!
Some of this may be true, some of it may not � you could argue all day so I'll not bother. However, it is quite clear that this country cannot sustain the level of immigration (either legal or illegal) that it has seen in the past few years. Whether newcomers pay their way or not (and I�m not entirely sure that overall they do, but I�ll not argue) there are shortages of resources that either money cannot buy or in which the government is not willing to sufficiently invest.
In the South East in particular (where most people seem to want to settle) there is insufficient water, housing, education, medical facilities, road space and public transport. Apart from housing (see below) no plans exist to properly tackle any of these problems. To contemplate allowing ever increasing numbers of people to enter the country whilst this persists is absolute lunacy.
There is talk of building a million homes in the South East over the next 20 years � an idea that horrifies many people. However, net immigration to the UK in 2004 was 342,000, with numbers for 2005 expected to be very much higher. How far will the 1m homes go when faced with those numbers?
Immigration is now on an unprecedented scale and the arguments that were previously valid no longer hold good. So, to people who plan to come here, my reply would be: If you�re coming here to work: we don�t need you. We�ve got 1m people already unemployed and we�ll get them to do a bit first. If you�re coming here to flee persecution: sorry, you�re too late. We�re full right up. If this sensible approach makes me a racist or a bigot, then that must be what I am. But I�m not alone!
Well said JudgeJ. This is a very small island and it getting smaller by the day.
As for the Us and Them... it is human nature to want to cling on to what our parents and grandparents fought and died for; to what they have spent their entire working lives building up and paying in to. They did it for their children and future generations, NOT to hand out to anyone from anywhere who fancies a bit - for nothing.
As for the Us and Them... it is human nature to want to cling on to what our parents and grandparents fought and died for; to what they have spent their entire working lives building up and paying in to. They did it for their children and future generations, NOT to hand out to anyone from anywhere who fancies a bit - for nothing.
We need immigrants.
In 2008 the number of pensioners will overtake the number of children for the first time ever.
In the EU in 2000 21% of people were obver 65 in 2020 it will be 34%.
Who will be paying taxes to keep society running when we retire?
Who will staff the hospitals for us?
Heck you think it's hard getting a plumber now see what it's like in 20 years!
Culture and bigotry just don't come into it anymore we *NEED* young working immigrants and we have to provide the infrastructure to cope with them - otherwise we'll all be facing a rather miserable retirement
In 2008 the number of pensioners will overtake the number of children for the first time ever.
In the EU in 2000 21% of people were obver 65 in 2020 it will be 34%.
Who will be paying taxes to keep society running when we retire?
Who will staff the hospitals for us?
Heck you think it's hard getting a plumber now see what it's like in 20 years!
Culture and bigotry just don't come into it anymore we *NEED* young working immigrants and we have to provide the infrastructure to cope with them - otherwise we'll all be facing a rather miserable retirement
I have to disagree, jake.
The way to tackle the pensions "crisis" is to encourage people who are here to provide for themselves. It is beyond the state to fund, via taxation, adequate pension provision. It is a misconception to argue that pensions should be funded by those still working. Properly funded pensions are effectively �deferred pay� which pension schemes have invested on behalf of their clients.
You ask who will be paying taxes when we retire. Ask any retired person who has a half-decent pension how much tax he pays on his pension and investment income!
In addition (and I return to one of my main points) taxpayers (pensioners included) are being forced to support large numbers of people through the course of their entire lives, both whilst those people are of working age and in �retirement�. To suggest that immigrant labour has to be introduced to further fund that lifestyle is an insult to taxpayers as their funds are, in my view, being misappropriated.
In addition, �young working immigrants� are not entirely what we�re getting. We�re also taking in large numbers of older and/or non-working immigrants. They bring with them more of the very problems it is said immigration is setting out to cure.
However, even if I could be convinced that there is merit in further immigration (and I�m a long way from that, as you can probably imagine) I would still oppose it on the grounds that the country does simply not have the resources needed to properly cope with it. Other ways must be found to cope with this dilemma, as further mass immigration will simply add to the very problems we are being asked to believe it will solve.
The way to tackle the pensions "crisis" is to encourage people who are here to provide for themselves. It is beyond the state to fund, via taxation, adequate pension provision. It is a misconception to argue that pensions should be funded by those still working. Properly funded pensions are effectively �deferred pay� which pension schemes have invested on behalf of their clients.
You ask who will be paying taxes when we retire. Ask any retired person who has a half-decent pension how much tax he pays on his pension and investment income!
In addition (and I return to one of my main points) taxpayers (pensioners included) are being forced to support large numbers of people through the course of their entire lives, both whilst those people are of working age and in �retirement�. To suggest that immigrant labour has to be introduced to further fund that lifestyle is an insult to taxpayers as their funds are, in my view, being misappropriated.
In addition, �young working immigrants� are not entirely what we�re getting. We�re also taking in large numbers of older and/or non-working immigrants. They bring with them more of the very problems it is said immigration is setting out to cure.
However, even if I could be convinced that there is merit in further immigration (and I�m a long way from that, as you can probably imagine) I would still oppose it on the grounds that the country does simply not have the resources needed to properly cope with it. Other ways must be found to cope with this dilemma, as further mass immigration will simply add to the very problems we are being asked to believe it will solve.
And another thing!
It�s not something that worries me terribly, but I�m sure some people will be concerned of the effect that the immigration to this country is having on the countries our immigrants are coming from. Why should we suck all the young workers into our country to cure our problems? Surely by us doing so, the countries they leave will then develop similar problems of their own.
If all the young plumbers from Poland each leave behind two parents and four grandparents, who will financially care for them in their dotage? Or do we have exclusive rights of access to the young people of other nations?
It�s not something that worries me terribly, but I�m sure some people will be concerned of the effect that the immigration to this country is having on the countries our immigrants are coming from. Why should we suck all the young workers into our country to cure our problems? Surely by us doing so, the countries they leave will then develop similar problems of their own.
If all the young plumbers from Poland each leave behind two parents and four grandparents, who will financially care for them in their dotage? Or do we have exclusive rights of access to the young people of other nations?
Where I strongly disagree with illegal activity whether it be committed by immigrants, illegal or otherwise of Britons, I cannot condone the blanket disapproval of anyone who is considered 'un-English'. How do we feel when we are targetted by religious extremists simply because we are not of the same religion?
I have just read Malory Blackman's trilogy Naughts and Crosses and my opinions have been set fast that unless we all individually change to accept each other for who we are, society will never change.
Each one of us is responsible for 'society' not one group of people, or one religion or one colour; each individual.
I would like to think that if I ever had a need to flee to another country in emergency I would find safety and acceptance. When answering these questions, imagine the boot is on the other foot.
I have just read Malory Blackman's trilogy Naughts and Crosses and my opinions have been set fast that unless we all individually change to accept each other for who we are, society will never change.
Each one of us is responsible for 'society' not one group of people, or one religion or one colour; each individual.
I would like to think that if I ever had a need to flee to another country in emergency I would find safety and acceptance. When answering these questions, imagine the boot is on the other foot.
Haggisdj, I think our parents fought and died in the second world war to prevent Hitler suppressing and killing millions of immigrants after blaming the state of the German economy on them prior to his "final solution", (anyone else see an alarming similarity? ) I think they would hang their heads in shame and despair that so many of their descendants are behaving in such a vile and intolerant way after they strived and died to save us from such things.This is not what Britain is supposed to be about.
pippa read his speech, and for the record the comparisons between his tactics and hitlers, i.e appealing to people bigotry and racism to apportion blame to a group of people for the current state of the country as they are an easy target...
some of the posts that seem supportive of a cessation to immigration do elude to the real problem, the misappropriation of tax payers money on the lack of houses, hospitals schools and policeman... but it's much harder to get into a debate about real issues it's a lot easier to point and say, it's their fault, well stop immigration tomorrow, Britain a better place now? more housing? less key workers, less tax revenue...
when we don't have immigration then the debate can shift to communists! short people, ginger people, wait it's the witches fault, lets start trial by water again!
i won't bother going through the race argument further, i can't see the point people have their views which they are entitled to, i don't agree but then that's the trouble with liberals they don't shout loud enough...
some of the posts that seem supportive of a cessation to immigration do elude to the real problem, the misappropriation of tax payers money on the lack of houses, hospitals schools and policeman... but it's much harder to get into a debate about real issues it's a lot easier to point and say, it's their fault, well stop immigration tomorrow, Britain a better place now? more housing? less key workers, less tax revenue...
when we don't have immigration then the debate can shift to communists! short people, ginger people, wait it's the witches fault, lets start trial by water again!
i won't bother going through the race argument further, i can't see the point people have their views which they are entitled to, i don't agree but then that's the trouble with liberals they don't shout loud enough...
To believe some of the comments made aboveyou would have to believe that we have a surplus of jobs going begging in this country and if ou believe that than may I say to you good day Mrs Thatcher.
The simple truth is that immigrants are sucking the lifeblood out of this country.
We allow these people into this country at the rate of 250,000 per year many of whom come from uneducated countries in Africa and many bring aids or H.I.V positive symptoms with them and a great many dont speak a word of English and generally they have much bigger families than we do.
So lets sum up:
at day one: they get social security
they get health care which costs us millions
Many of them spread a fatal disease
They get free housing
free schooling for their children
AND FOR THE ABOVE THEY HAVENT PAID A PENNY,
whereas OUR people are being told by tosser Bliar that we should be prepared to work until we are 70 years old because there is no money for White British people to have a pension, even though we paid in for 40 feckin years.
and we are expected to believe this is the best thing that ever happen to Britain?
We are beyond all doubt the most gullible people on this planet
The simple truth is that immigrants are sucking the lifeblood out of this country.
We allow these people into this country at the rate of 250,000 per year many of whom come from uneducated countries in Africa and many bring aids or H.I.V positive symptoms with them and a great many dont speak a word of English and generally they have much bigger families than we do.
So lets sum up:
at day one: they get social security
they get health care which costs us millions
Many of them spread a fatal disease
They get free housing
free schooling for their children
AND FOR THE ABOVE THEY HAVENT PAID A PENNY,
whereas OUR people are being told by tosser Bliar that we should be prepared to work until we are 70 years old because there is no money for White British people to have a pension, even though we paid in for 40 feckin years.
and we are expected to believe this is the best thing that ever happen to Britain?
We are beyond all doubt the most gullible people on this planet
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