ungrateful b***ard

[stokeace]

so the iraqi prime minister has asked for international help in beating insurgents in iraq.what the hell does he think british and american troops have been serving and dying there been trying to do?the iraqi people are an ungrateful race.im swiftly coming to the conclusion that we ought to withdraw and let the country rot in hell and take its murderous population with it.....

[jno]

well, obviously he's not talking about the US or UK. He's appealing to Syria and Iran, both of which would like Iraq a bit unstable but which don't want out and out anarchy

[stokeace]

he said iraq was being used as an international battleground im all for troops being deployed to eradicate any threats to the west but to get involved in helping iraq become a democratic society are proving to be futile.

[kwicky]

I think what he was getting at are these the methods used by the US. Fight your enemies on foreign soil and if threatened at home bomb that country into obliteration including the innocent.
Some inept policians, including the UK, believe we'll be safer by stationing star wars missiles here to defend ourselves. How naive! It will be just a new battleground for the US.

[jump79]

well they (british/american troops)obviously haven't been able to stop the insurgents so is he supposed to sit by twiddling his thumbs and hope for the best?
Asking for extra help doesn't mean he is ungrateful for the attempted help so far, as a leader, he just wants the best for his country, like Everybody else...

[stokeace]

jump79 so who else can help his depraved country more than the uk and the us ?so what if we withdraw and he will see how much his country descends into anarchy god knows there has been enough uk and american blood spilt to help his country.his words will be greeted with derision by the forces serving in iraq and facing death when they go out on patrol in HIS country.

[jake-the-peg]

I think you have to make a very cold, calculating decision here.

Regardless of how we got here would we be safer if we pulled out or if we stayed?

I can see why you'd say we should get out and leave them to it but it doesn't work like that does it?

What sort of place would Iraq end up if we did?

Quite probably a place rather like Afghanistan was in 2001.

So a failed state next door to Turkey and Saudi Arabia - I can see us looking back and seeing withdrawal as the biggest mistake in the whole nasty mess

[anotheoldgit]

I don't think jake-the-peg, that if you had an uniform on and was out there dodging bullets, rockets and bombs, you would somehow bravely class ' withdrawal as the biggest mistake in the whole sorry mess'.

Who cares about Iraq? we got rid of Sadam for them, so it is now time we came home.

[maxximus]

http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/lies/

[jake-the-peg]

and similarly anotheoldgit whe you're looking up in a few years wondering where the roof of the bus has gone you may not think immediate withdrawal was such a good idea after all.

Training camps in Afganistan ring any bells?

Do you seriously think we can just pull out of there with no consequences? that everyone will just wave us goodbye and that will be that?

[jake-the-peg]

Sorry I should clarify that for maxximus

I am not for a moment claiming that there is any relationship between 9/11 and Iraq.

I and millions of people like me never wanted us in Iraq in the first place there were record breaking demonstrations - we had a home secretary resign for God's sake!

But we did.

And we got rid of Saddam there was a flood of fighters that poured into Iraq to pursue their own various aims.

If we withdraw without a stable government that can keep order there will be a civil war and the end result will be a country where all sorts of organisations can do what the hell they like.

These are not easy questions - maybe withdrawal is the best option - personally I doubt it - I think we may be dealing with the fall out for years

The military might of a country is often not a measure of the strength of it's army but of the resolve of it's people.

Sounds like we might be at the end of ours

[maxximus]

thanx for the clarification jake, i wouldn't assume, you would claim a relationship between the two. the fifth estate program was for stokeace's benefit. my honest opinion is that some of that flood of fighters that have poured in, are western backed, and as many of these groups have been down this road before, the west is finding it more difficult this time around. economic sanctions are designed to financially cripple a government, turn the population against the government but most importantly destroy the moral of a standing army.(government cannot pay soldiers) if we were truly honest brokers, immediately after saddam's government was overthrown we'd had set up payroll stations and payed iraq's 500,000 plus standing army the pay they had not recieved, most had not been paid for well over 6-8 months. they could have fed and clothed their families and would have, i believe, because of the brokers act of good faith, showed their loyalty. security would never have been an issue, rebuilding would not be as impossible as it appears as the destruction would have been minimalized. the population would have fallen into line without a peep and they could have had a legitimate democratic election, saddam's memory falling into history at a fraction of the cost. this apparantly was not desired. i agree with you, these are not easy questions, but i firmly believe that it was done the way it was, so we would have an excuse to stay, permanetly. just my opinion, i was also one of the millions and will be again on march 17, cheers!