Quizzes & Puzzles63 mins ago
Retospective planning permission and Building regs
7 Answers
Hi,
I am currently in the process of buying a semi-detached house with a timber annexe in the garden.
The timber annexe is literally a 1 bedroom flat with all plumbing, electrics etc but with no planning or building regs.
The vendor described this through the estate agent as a "temporary" building so therfore not requiring PP or BR.
Also, it stated that the council had agreed to the annexe and can accommodate family members as long as council tax was being paid, which I phoned the local council and they seem to be aware of it and even told me the council tax band that it was in and the vendors last exemption expiry date on the annexe.
The vendor has built the annexe on viewing to a high standard of workmanship and has butted it up against a garage that had planning approval. Also planning permission was given for an extension some years ago but was never undertaken and is now expired.
The annexe I have been told has been up for 2 years and has been assembled to all the dimensional criteria.
Please can someone let me know if this all sounds legitimate, or whether I need to get retrospective planning after we buy it, something else or even not touch it with a bargepole!
Many thanks
Ralph
I am currently in the process of buying a semi-detached house with a timber annexe in the garden.
The timber annexe is literally a 1 bedroom flat with all plumbing, electrics etc but with no planning or building regs.
The vendor described this through the estate agent as a "temporary" building so therfore not requiring PP or BR.
Also, it stated that the council had agreed to the annexe and can accommodate family members as long as council tax was being paid, which I phoned the local council and they seem to be aware of it and even told me the council tax band that it was in and the vendors last exemption expiry date on the annexe.
The vendor has built the annexe on viewing to a high standard of workmanship and has butted it up against a garage that had planning approval. Also planning permission was given for an extension some years ago but was never undertaken and is now expired.
The annexe I have been told has been up for 2 years and has been assembled to all the dimensional criteria.
Please can someone let me know if this all sounds legitimate, or whether I need to get retrospective planning after we buy it, something else or even not touch it with a bargepole!
Many thanks
Ralph
Answers
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Someone with more current knowledge may contradict me, but in my experience a temporary building of the type you describe would need PP. If there is plumbing and electrics I find it difficult to believe it would not also need BR. However, it does seem odd if the Council know about it and have given it a CT band. What do you mean by the "vendors last exemption expiry date on the annexe"? Exemption from what?
What does your solicitor have to say about it?
What does your solicitor have to say about it?
Hi Themas, thanks for replying
The council tax office told me if the annexe was unoccupied you can claim for an exemption but this can only be for 6 months and at the end of the 6 months you are not able to claim for another exemption until a whole year has passed.
The council tax office told me that an exemption can be applied for again in June 07 and seeing as the annexe has been up for 2 years I am presuming that council tax payments have previously been made.
Its all very confusing but surely if I applied for retrospective planning it would be granted - wouldn't it???
The council tax office told me if the annexe was unoccupied you can claim for an exemption but this can only be for 6 months and at the end of the 6 months you are not able to claim for another exemption until a whole year has passed.
The council tax office told me that an exemption can be applied for again in June 07 and seeing as the annexe has been up for 2 years I am presuming that council tax payments have previously been made.
Its all very confusing but surely if I applied for retrospective planning it would be granted - wouldn't it???
I don't know! It probably ought to be, but you can't guarantee it. There could still be an issue with BR anyway, particularly if it was not built in accordance with present standards for heat insulation of walls, roof & windows.
The vendor ought to be able to explain exactly what contact he had with the Council about the building. Was he told by them he didn't need PP or BR (I doubt it!), and if so was this in writing? How does it come about it has been assessed for CT without having PP or BR?
The vendor ought to be able to explain exactly what contact he had with the Council about the building. Was he told by them he didn't need PP or BR (I doubt it!), and if so was this in writing? How does it come about it has been assessed for CT without having PP or BR?
First of all, separate the Planning from the Buildings Regs.
Planning: the only way I can think that the council are accepting this situation is that it has been constructed using Permitted Development Rights. These allow householders to extend their property, or build a structure in the garden. For your house, PDR would be up to 15% of the VOLUME of the original house or 70 cubic metres, whichever is the greater. PDRights do not (normally) exist in Conservation Areas, National Parks or other special areas (AONB for example). If this structure is within PDR, Planning Permission is not required - ask the seller.
What PDR do not usually do is allow one to build a separately assessed (Council Tax) extension - as you say you have here. Very odd.
Building Regs: treat these as a separate matter - they ensure the structure is built safely and to minimum insulation stds. Wooden structures is not the issue - there are plenty of wooden houses around. Insulation and fire safety stds certainly are. Without BR approval you have a storage space and the space is regarded as non-habitable space. This stops the vendor calling it an extra bedroom. As non-habitable space, I cannot understand how the council could regard the annexe as assessable for Council Tax - its should be just a storage space and I do not believe one pays extra CT for a large shed. It is my guess that the CT people do not realise that it does not have BR approval.
Is it a problem to you? - probably not. If it has been constructed using PDRs it is perfectly legal. Can anyone sleep in there? - not really, but its not illegal unless you were renting it out.
Planning: the only way I can think that the council are accepting this situation is that it has been constructed using Permitted Development Rights. These allow householders to extend their property, or build a structure in the garden. For your house, PDR would be up to 15% of the VOLUME of the original house or 70 cubic metres, whichever is the greater. PDRights do not (normally) exist in Conservation Areas, National Parks or other special areas (AONB for example). If this structure is within PDR, Planning Permission is not required - ask the seller.
What PDR do not usually do is allow one to build a separately assessed (Council Tax) extension - as you say you have here. Very odd.
Building Regs: treat these as a separate matter - they ensure the structure is built safely and to minimum insulation stds. Wooden structures is not the issue - there are plenty of wooden houses around. Insulation and fire safety stds certainly are. Without BR approval you have a storage space and the space is regarded as non-habitable space. This stops the vendor calling it an extra bedroom. As non-habitable space, I cannot understand how the council could regard the annexe as assessable for Council Tax - its should be just a storage space and I do not believe one pays extra CT for a large shed. It is my guess that the CT people do not realise that it does not have BR approval.
Is it a problem to you? - probably not. If it has been constructed using PDRs it is perfectly legal. Can anyone sleep in there? - not really, but its not illegal unless you were renting it out.
Thanks chaps thats is great. Both answers very informative.
I will find out if this annexe has PDR.
If it doesn't have PDR is it wise to buy the house and go for PP and BR or even buy the house and wait another 2 years to gain PP omission( 4 year rule regarding PP )
I just dont want to be told to knock the thing down and cost me a further �???? in doing so.........
I will find out if this annexe has PDR.
If it doesn't have PDR is it wise to buy the house and go for PP and BR or even buy the house and wait another 2 years to gain PP omission( 4 year rule regarding PP )
I just dont want to be told to knock the thing down and cost me a further �???? in doing so.........
PDRs don't exist in the form of 'Here's confirmation you can build this extension using PDR'. In some cases a Local Planner might write confirming that a proposed extension doesn't need Planning Permission but that's as good as it gets. If I was a buyer, I would get the seller to confirm to my solicitor that PP was not required by asking the question, 'Please confirm that PP was not required for the annex build by you in 2004'. I don't recommend either of you going to ask Planning. If they decide it does need PP, you both are disappointed. If they don't know it is there, after FOUR years, any structure that was built without necessary PP CANNOT be forced to be removed anyway.
I actually phoned the palnning council and asked them outright if PDR had been the reason for the annexe to be being built and actually gave the adress. They explained that all dwellings have limited PDR and this particular dwelling hadn't had it removed. Last activity here was in mid 90's. They advised on getting a " Certificate of Lawful Development" could take up to 8 weeks and I would have to notify the vendor if I decide to do this. Does this mean I wouldn't need to get Retrospective planning if I got this?
Not sure if I have done the right thing today but if I was going to buy it, it would have to be done legitimate anyway.
Do you think the council would investigate now or do they only investigate on complaints?
Not sure if I have done the right thing today but if I was going to buy it, it would have to be done legitimate anyway.
Do you think the council would investigate now or do they only investigate on complaints?
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