Confessions and Roman Catholics

[LoftyLottie]

I don't want to start another thread regarding Madeleine McCann, but I have just read from a reputable source that priests have no duty to report anything that is said to them in a confession, including murder.

Surely this can't be true, otherwise we could all claim to withhold evidence for religious reasons and surely religion holds no clout under the law.

Can someone please enlighten me, i.e. Can the police demand that a priest must tell what they know if questioned?

If it is true then I am truly amazed!

[4getmenot]

yes it is true priests are not allowed to say what is said in confessions. they've covered this a few times in soaps. I remember vicar ashley in emmerdale not being able to say a thing when they confided in killing that woman that had cancer

[LoftyLottie]

So religion comes first, above the law of the land. Why should a priest have special rights. I don't understand it.

[Reverandfunk]

Confession what a load of old boll*&%$ that is.

Forgive me father for I have sinned, thats ok my child im messing with the altar boy anyway

[redcrx]

yes but youve just got to hope that in such a case where someone may admit to such an act as murder that the vicar would make an anonymous call.

[LoftyLottie]

But why, Red, should be police believe someone who calls anonymously?

Revfunk, I agree with you.

[Reverandfunk]

The Catholic church is probably the biggest paedophile ring in the world.

[redcrx]

because the police are obliged to look into any allegation thats made, anonymous or not. Thats why we have crimestoppers, for those that wish to remain anonymous. You dont always have to give your details if you have information

[Goodsoulette]

Confession is sealed, I think they call it one of the canons (I am CofE so not too sure).

The priest doesn't have to give pennance though, if he doesn't think the person has repented but he should tell the person to hand themselves in to absolve themselves of their crimes. The priest wouldn't be breaking the seal if he spoke to the person out of confession about it, so could use that time to hand themselves in.

Breaking this canon (?) would be something that could probably get a priest excommunicated and the only way of getting round it would be a reprive from the pope.

This seal is respected by most governments to varying degrees. It is accepted that the priest will either encourage the person to confess or ask to be permitted to confess some of the sin to the police on their behald.

[Goodsoulette]

Just looked up the seal of the confessional and in cases where the priest thinks that others really may be in danger, he can write to the pope to ask for absolution to reveal the crime to the authorities.

[LoftyLottie]

Thanks for your answers on both threads.

Special thanks to Goodsoulette for giving such good info and making me feel more reassured.

[Goodsoulette]

Just another ater thought, I would imagine some confessing to heinous crime would normally be crying out for help and would be easily swayed into confessing. I would think this would be the case of someone who say murdered a member of their family, or someone in a fight and couldnt live with what they had done.

If it was an utter nutter out on the prowl and just finding a way to brag, then the priest would surely be straight on the blower to his bishop.

[Octavius]

As Goods said really.....

Canon Law regulates what is known as the Seal of the Confessional. This means that a priest must not reveal any sin that is revealed when hearing a confession.

It is important to note the difference between admission to a sin and confession of a sin. If a person admits to a crime the priest may be bound to report the matter to the police. If a penitent confesses a sin which is also a crime the priest is bound by the Seal of the Confessional.

If a confessor discloses a criminal offence there is a duty in law to report the crime to the police, otherwise they could become an accessory (unless they make formal confessional under Rite of the Church which would protect the priest in law). It would be up to the priest to encourage the offender to go to the police and make a full disclosure.

[Campfire]

...and if this isn't a perfect example of why religion is so dangerous, I don't know what is. It has no place, I repeat, NO place in modern society. Priests and other religious figures should be accountable for their actions like any other human being. Withholding evidence is a crime and if it is revealed in the process of a court case that a religious figure withheld evidence then they should be prosecuted accordingly.

[Goodsoulette]

Campfire, lets say someone ridden wioth guilt goes to a priest because its in confidence. Then that priest manages to convince that person to turn themselves in. If their wasnt a priest maybe that person would never have admitted his crime.

Religion I believe, was in part a way to make society conform to what is right and wrong. In principal it has a good moral code. People twist passages of various religious books for thei own uses or to spread hatred. These people are nuts, barely a single religion is exempt from this at any point in history. Its not the religion, its the people abusing it. These people would start a war or commit crimes, in the name of the "Twits" or "The Famous Five go Fishing" if they didn't have religion to fall back on.

[tubeway]

Confession always strikes me as a get out of jail free card. It will not matter what sin a person commits as the priest can absolve them anyway.

[Goodsoulette]

but the priest will only do that if they show remorse and pay the pennance. The person needs to absolve themselves partially.... they will know if they worthy of absolution, and if they believe all of this then there is no escaping it. If someone really believes in this then they cant believe they can pull the wool over gods eyes.

[LoftyLottie]

Thanks again for the further contributions.

I tend to agree with Campfire and Tubeway., but can see what you are saying Goodsoulette.

Thanks for such a detailed and informed reply Octavious.

My other thread on this has now had some idiot input!! I never should have posted it in Body and Soul as well (I just thought it might get overlooked here and I really was puzzled about this confessional thing.)

[Campfire]

Goodsoulette, that is not the point. If someone feels ridden with guilt and tells their best friend, brother or mother, those people would be accused and convicted of withholding evidence. Look at Maxine Carr. Yet somehow if it's a priest it's okay?

The only reason a criminal is likely to choose a priest over a best friend etc. is they know the priest won't turn them into the police. That isn't really guilt, that's pretend guilt to make yourself feel better.

An atheist who is truly guilty, or any human being, would know that if you're truly guilty and wish to be held accountable for your behaviour then you can turn yourself in to the police. The courts reward this behaviour with a more lenient sentence.

Once again - religion has NO place in modern society, there is always a more logical and reasonable alternative that does not involve an evil institution or supernatural being.

[Goodsoulette]

Im just providing an answer campfire. I dont go to confession Im not catholic. I have never said I think its right that a priest should be allowed to do this. I personally find catholics an odd bunch with a very putdated method of living. It always stuns me when I hear of the pope being blamed for the aids epidemic because they are all catholic and not using condoms because of this but surely if these people had been living a truly catholic life (no sex before marriage) then they would have the aids epidemic. Again people using religion when they want it. As a whole I lead probably a Christian life, just one with relatively good moral standards.

I find no harm in something that gives someone comfort. If it helps my little boy think his grandad is in a better place and not make him feel so desperately sad about death thats fine. I have never told him there is a heaven or hell, or that I believe in God, he has made these decisions himself. Religion has no place for YOUin modern society as you get comfort from other things, just as I wouldn't expect my son to force his beliefs on you, I would be very disappointed if you told him that.

Each to there own. I'm more agnostic about the whole thing to be honest, lost my faith after a suicide and another unexpected death. I still cant get my head around us coming from a big ball of dust and believe there has to be some higher being. I find theology pretty fascinating but maybe thats because I had a very churchy upbringing and a lovely reverend, and church seemed magical.

One definiton of religion is a cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion. Atheism appears to fall into this category and they seem to be the pushiest of the lot. Unable to let people live and let live.

[jno]

Catholics acknowledge that human beings are not perfect, and say it doesn't matter. If you're sorry for your mistakes, God will forgive you and love you anyway. This more or less reflects the way people love their children despite their faults; God is, after all, seen as the Father. It seems a pretty humane way of looking at things, though most ABers seem to prefer the death penalty for just about anything from traffic offences on up, preferably without trial. Of course, ABers are perfect (aside from a little intolerance here and there).