3 yr old sleeping issues

[newtron]

My wife and I just recently got permanent guardianship of our great nieces who are 1 and 3. They have been in foster care for the last 6 months and before that were being neglected by their parents who are drug addicts. We are very happy to have them and to be able to keep them in the family. They are great girls, but we are having some problems with the 3 yr old ( which was expected, we've only had them for a little over a week). She went to bed very easily for the first 3 nights, but then she decided she did not want to sleep in her room. We tried to negotiate with her a little and let her sleep in another room closer to us (and at one point, my wife let her sleep with her while I was a way on a business trip). Well, the new arrangement didn't work out for various reasons. So we made our stand last night put her in her bed. After carrying her back to bed while she was screaming several times. We told her that if she got out of her bed, we would close the door and not let her out of her room. We followed through with this threat and listened to her scream and cry and bang on the door for three hours straight. We stayed close to make sure she wasn't going to hurt herself badly. We did let her out to go to the bathroom a couple times, and we then gave her another chance for her to stay in bed with the door open. She finally stayed in bed with the door open and went to sleep. She woke up a few more times, but went back to bed quietly when we escorted her. I really hope she has a good memory and that things will go better tonight. We'll see. Does anyone have any suggestions on clever ways to deal with a three year old who had no disciplinary structure for the first 2.5 years of her life?

[goingonadiet]

I think you are on the right track and there are no quick fixes here. She needs boundaries as all children do and she is seeing how far she can push them right now. It's not at all easy to take on children and not be overly soft with them given their background, but if you can keep up what you did last night, things will get better very quickly. It's a battle of wills!
Good luck with the routine tonight.

[musicmummy]

Do the two girls share a room?

[newtron]

No, they don't share a room. In the beginning when we tried to negotiate with her, we let her sleep in the same room as the baby, but the baby would wake her and she would wake the baby, and she would not go to sleep unless one of us was lying by her side. So we decided that sharing a room was a bad idea.

[amonty1144]

Firstly, I'm so pleased that you are able to offer a home to your two little girls.
At the moment she will testing the boundaries and also will be a little insecure. Make sure that you constantly reassure her that she is staying with you, love her but keep being firm. As her insecurity recedes, so will her need to be close to you.
Just keep doing what you're doing but I wouldn't shut the door on her, this may make the problem worse. From now try and establish a good bedtime routine. Bath, pj's , snack and bed...read to her and settle her, this may be some quie music or leaving the light on or the door open, try and do the same every night.
It will get better and good luck

[musicmummy]

Maybe you can ask social work to ask the foster parents what their routine was, I totally agree with goingonadiet, they need set routine. Although i wouldnt close the door, and would provide a nite light, All the best of luck, let us know when she settles k. x

[newtron]

We are trying to set a routine almost identical to that suggested by amonty and as that done by the foster parents. We tell her we love her a lot and assure her that everything will be all right. We also put in a night light. At this point, if we don't close the door, she would stay in bed for about 3 seconds. I guess I could just keep putting her back in bed for hours on end, but I would be fighting with her as she thrashes around very violently. I think it is more effective to ignore her temper tantrums. But I can't ignore them with the door open because she will keep running out of her room.

[aims1202]

I agree that children need boundaries but as she is so young and has only been with you for a week i would be a bit more relaxed about these at first. Also considering what she has been through, having to leave her home and foster carers. She may well be frightened of being on her own and being shut in the room. I think she needs a lot of reassurance, loads of love and attention which i'm sure you are doing. I think it might be better to let her sleep on a mattress on the floor in your room for a short time until she feels more secure. Then move her to her own room. Have a really nice bedtime routine and story in bed. You could maybe have a light on and i would say never shut the door. You could stay with her for a bit when before she goes to sleep then say you will be outside the door and will come straight back only if she stays in bed. Go straight back like you said. If she gets up before then just take her back telling her she good for getting back into bed. Keep repeating this making the time you leave before coming back a bit longer each time. It will be hard but eventually she will stay. I would reward her the next day if she stayed in her bed. The more positive you can be about this the better. I wish you all the best.

[annie0000]

When my kids were that age, we appointed one of their favourite soft toys as a special guardian to look after them when they were in bed. This worked a treat, you just have to have a talk with the toy while the child is listening about how they have to look after X and make them not scared. It sounds really daft, but I have passed this on to a few colleagues, and it seems to work. At that age, they have a really vivid imagination which on one hand is what makes them frightened in the first place, but it is useful on the other hand as they totally believe that the toy has special protection powers!!

It is really hard, because although the girls will need set boundaries, they will both be feeling very insecure. I would do what works best for you as a family, and not what everyone else says you should do. Whilst you don't want to develop bad habits for the future, put yourself in that little ones shoes, would you want to be shut away on your own when you are scared and unsettled?

[newtron]

I understand what you are saying, but in the end our methods had the desired results. She stayed in bed quietly and went to sleep with the door open. She did wake up a couple more times, complaining that her blankets fell off. I gently escorted her back to bed and asked her to get into bed, which she did very calmly. I then tucked her in and gave her a hug and kiss and said good night. She stayed in bed and fell asleep.

If it was me, I definitely would not like to be locked in my room, but hopefully, I would figure out the very simple cause/effect relationship and realize that if I stay in bed, they will leave the door open and that throwing a temper tantrum is not getting me anywhere ( That is an important conclusion to come to). And as far as I can tell, she finally made that connection. She's a very smart girl!

As goingonadiet said, it really does appear to be a battle of the wills. If you giver her an inch, she'll take a mile. It also appears that you cannot negotiate with a 3 year old because they do not understand the concept of compromise. However, they can figure out simple cause and effect relationships.

Thank you for your comments.

[Solarjunkie]

Best of luck with your new charges.
I think it was on House of Tiny Tearaways that they demonstrated a way to calm a nervous child at night, but you do need to be able to survive on an hour's sleep a night!
Basically, after putting them to bed and turning the light down low, you sit, silently, in the room. Each time the child gets out of bed, she is returned with minimal talk. After two nights, you move the chair to the door. After 2 more nights. to the landing. Etc. I guess they can only believe what they can see or hear at that moment, and if it is hard to believe there is someone near unless they can see or hear them, having you nearby might help.
Hey that gives me an idea - what about a baby alarm, the other way round? So she can hear you washing up etc downstairs & knows you're not far away?
But the Special Looking After Toy sounds like a good idea!

[ethanryan]

hi i used to have this problem with my son. you need to make sure they understand that you mean what you say, but in your case reember she has been through a lot at such a yong age and maybe she dont like being alone. i know you say she wakes baby if they are in same room, but this may help. my son slept much better with his baby brother in the room. teah they woke each other up at times but they will get used to it and just sleep through it. my boys did. it may make her feel safer knowing she isnt alone.

try sitting on the bed with her and reading a story, or even 5 stories if thats what it takes to calm her down and she will eventually fall asleep. i know this isnt always ideal but from what you have said i juat feel she needs to know she isnt alone.

as you say she is clever, she may be pushing you just to see what she can and cant get away with.

remember its all new and strange for her, she is only a baby still.

[newtron]

Things went much better last night! Yay! After reading the third and final book of the evening, she began to cry. We put her in bed and tucked her in. She began screaming, but we told her that she needed to stay in bed or we would close the door again. 30 seconds after we left the room, she got out of bed. I immediately put her back in bed and closed the door and I figured we were in for another 3 hour tantrum, but this tantrum only lasted 10 seconds. She immediately began to promise that she would stay in bed if we opened the door. So I opened the door and tucked her in again and said good night. She said good night without crying. She slept the whole night by herself with the door open! The baby also slept the whole night! So this morning we all woke up in a very good mood. We praised her for being a good big girl and promised her ice cream after lunch today. She was very happy about that.

[rabbitdrop]

I think you are right to be firm over this. I have three children and would not for a moment claim to have done many things right, but one thing was that we all did get a good night's sleep when they were little. Friends used to put up with basically being messed around throughout the night and it really doesnt do anyone any good. You just end up with tired bad tempered children throughout the day. I think one of the most important things a child can learn when they are little is to develop a good level of attention. A brilliant way to do this is with listening to stories at bedtime. My kids all did well at school and I'm convinced that is why. I used to see their friends who were unable to sit still and listen or concentrate on anything and it is a real problem later on at school. Well done for giving the little girls a home. Obviously they will also need a lot of love and patience and understanding. But you do owe it to them to establish some boundaries, especially over bed time.

[newtron]

The last two nights have been good. She goes right to bed ans slepps all night.