ChatterBank25 mins ago
Noise and smoke
10 Answers
Neighbours from hell moved in before Christmas. Since then they have proceeded to burn fires in a disused chimney at night and weekends. There are no chimney pots and the holes on the stack are capped with half ridged tiles that the National Association of Chimney Sweeps website shows as indicating a dead chimney and unsafe to use.The fumes get into our house making throats and eyes sore. This would suggest that the chimney interior is dodgy. The tenants/letting agents landlord and local council are fixated on the type of fuel being used, which is not really the issue. All the council will do is tell us that it will be very difficult to prove, having been very gungho until we wanted them to take action!
As for the noise we are functioning on four hours sleep a night for about 5 nights a week as the guy next door works odd shifts and appears addicted to the Guitar Hero computer game. Needless to say we are exhorted to live and let live as the noise is not "particularly excessive".
We are in our 50s and 60s respectively, not in the best of health and being on fixed incomes with dwindling savings, have no resources to fight a long legal battle to enjoy our home.
When none of the bodies supposed to protect your interests will actually do so, just what can the ordinary person do?
I am tired and sick at heart and see no end to the trouble we are in.
As for the noise we are functioning on four hours sleep a night for about 5 nights a week as the guy next door works odd shifts and appears addicted to the Guitar Hero computer game. Needless to say we are exhorted to live and let live as the noise is not "particularly excessive".
We are in our 50s and 60s respectively, not in the best of health and being on fixed incomes with dwindling savings, have no resources to fight a long legal battle to enjoy our home.
When none of the bodies supposed to protect your interests will actually do so, just what can the ordinary person do?
I am tired and sick at heart and see no end to the trouble we are in.
Answers
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1. The Council's Environmental Health Dept. should be willing and able to look into the issue of fumes coming into your house. This is potentially a serious health hazard and should not be allowed to continue.
2. The same Dept. is responsible for dealing with excessive noise.
3. Have you tried talking to the neighbours to see whether they are willing to mitigate the problems?
4. If the Council is not doing what they should, involve your local Councillor & see whether he/she can get some action.
2. The same Dept. is responsible for dealing with excessive noise.
3. Have you tried talking to the neighbours to see whether they are willing to mitigate the problems?
4. If the Council is not doing what they should, involve your local Councillor & see whether he/she can get some action.
Yes, we have approached the tenants. I used to work with sen (emotional and behavioural difficulties) children, my husband used to be a senior human resources manager so are no slouches at negotiating with difficult people). Not only was it not well received they went to the letting agency claiming we were harassing them and had been round complaining about their cat fouling our garden (not true). The letting agreement should cover all of these points and the tenants are shooting it from hell to breakfast but the agents refuse de facto to investigate,and take the tenants' part (line of least resistance). The owners reside abroad and I think are only interested in the income!
I agree that we could end up dead from fire or carbon monoxide and HAVE approached environmental health. Initially they were all gung-ho until we asked them to act, since when they have backed off and keep telling us it is all difficult to prove and what defences the tenants will put up! We have indeed contacted a local councillor and will be attending the surgery when one of the more pro-active individuals is on duty.
As I said before, when the department is not taking the fumes problem seriously what price noise nuisance? Our council noise service only witnesses nuisance (doesn't door knock or confiscate equipment) and requires 3 witnessed incidents in 6 months to issue an abatement notice. However, there are only 2 officers, one entirely dedicated to estates and the other giving priority to the same. Getting them to private residences is a nightmare. . . I know I sound very negative but I live in a target driven area where ticking the boxes is the issue, not being effective or making a difference. This is why I am so down and despairing.
I agree that we could end up dead from fire or carbon monoxide and HAVE approached environmental health. Initially they were all gung-ho until we asked them to act, since when they have backed off and keep telling us it is all difficult to prove and what defences the tenants will put up! We have indeed contacted a local councillor and will be attending the surgery when one of the more pro-active individuals is on duty.
As I said before, when the department is not taking the fumes problem seriously what price noise nuisance? Our council noise service only witnesses nuisance (doesn't door knock or confiscate equipment) and requires 3 witnessed incidents in 6 months to issue an abatement notice. However, there are only 2 officers, one entirely dedicated to estates and the other giving priority to the same. Getting them to private residences is a nightmare. . . I know I sound very negative but I live in a target driven area where ticking the boxes is the issue, not being effective or making a difference. This is why I am so down and despairing.
Our carbon monoxide detector is sited near our boiler, and the one gas fire we have is tested annually and does not have one. I think there used to be things you could get that turned black from orange if c/m was about but haven't seen any recently.
I am afraid my/our big problem is that we can see the dangers, but have no power to do anything about them, and the authorities that everyone rightly tells me SHOULD be doing something just will not. I would not want to put this on a level with Baby P or the cases of child neglect/abuse in Doncaster, but how else did they happen but this same attitude? We ticked the right boxes so that's ok? My husband and I can see that the situation is serious but getting anyone to do anything about it is the trouble! Left to myself I would like to go round there, pour a bucket of water over their damned fire and cut the cables to their tv. However, that would involve me in trespass and infringing their human rights! No wonder terrorists do what they do!
I am afraid my/our big problem is that we can see the dangers, but have no power to do anything about them, and the authorities that everyone rightly tells me SHOULD be doing something just will not. I would not want to put this on a level with Baby P or the cases of child neglect/abuse in Doncaster, but how else did they happen but this same attitude? We ticked the right boxes so that's ok? My husband and I can see that the situation is serious but getting anyone to do anything about it is the trouble! Left to myself I would like to go round there, pour a bucket of water over their damned fire and cut the cables to their tv. However, that would involve me in trespass and infringing their human rights! No wonder terrorists do what they do!
We emailed the Fire Brigade 2 weeks ago, and answer has there been none, I'm afraid.
In the meantime we have bought a carbon monoxide detector to put in our living room.
We approached Environmental Health who appeared to understand the nature of the problem. However, once we wanted them to follow through we were told how difficult it would be to prove that fumes come into our house as the fires are burned out of office hours! (yes, evenings and weekends which is when most people are home!). They then got in touch to say they had sent the tenants a letter warning them to be more considerate about their bonfires. You couldn't make this up could you?
My husband and I are now in the process of writing a resume of events with some supporting evidence to take to a councillors' surgery and a letter to the Agents trying to get them to see that they are laying open the landlords to legal action by not doing anything. . . Watch this space.
In the meantime we have bought a carbon monoxide detector to put in our living room.
We approached Environmental Health who appeared to understand the nature of the problem. However, once we wanted them to follow through we were told how difficult it would be to prove that fumes come into our house as the fires are burned out of office hours! (yes, evenings and weekends which is when most people are home!). They then got in touch to say they had sent the tenants a letter warning them to be more considerate about their bonfires. You couldn't make this up could you?
My husband and I are now in the process of writing a resume of events with some supporting evidence to take to a councillors' surgery and a letter to the Agents trying to get them to see that they are laying open the landlords to legal action by not doing anything. . . Watch this space.
Hi Borderreiver,
This is from a Fire Brigade forum, I took the liberty of asking because I was in a house fire and avoidance is best.
The answer is as follows after posting your dilemma.
This advice has nothing to do with me being a firefighter and absolutely nothing to do with the brigade i work for but here's my Personal advice...
Record the smoke in the house on video if its that bad, Show the council the video and there's your proof.
If it was me and i'd already asked the neighbours and they refused... i'd buy a Good loud smoke alarm with a 10 year battery and a good pair of ear pugs, fit it above the leak and go to bed and have a nice relaxing sleep while the alarms Keeps the neighbours awake... They'd soon come around to the idea...
But then i suppose thats a chilidsh approach so here's my idea... fit the smoke alarms at the very least in the meantime, Make sure they've got a silence function. That will make sure they can get out if the stupid ******** next door set their house ablaze Or see if your local brigade offer Home fire risk assessments where they will come round and fit the alarms and give you some face to face advice.
Regards.
L.
This is from a Fire Brigade forum, I took the liberty of asking because I was in a house fire and avoidance is best.
The answer is as follows after posting your dilemma.
This advice has nothing to do with me being a firefighter and absolutely nothing to do with the brigade i work for but here's my Personal advice...
Record the smoke in the house on video if its that bad, Show the council the video and there's your proof.
If it was me and i'd already asked the neighbours and they refused... i'd buy a Good loud smoke alarm with a 10 year battery and a good pair of ear pugs, fit it above the leak and go to bed and have a nice relaxing sleep while the alarms Keeps the neighbours awake... They'd soon come around to the idea...
But then i suppose thats a chilidsh approach so here's my idea... fit the smoke alarms at the very least in the meantime, Make sure they've got a silence function. That will make sure they can get out if the stupid ******** next door set their house ablaze Or see if your local brigade offer Home fire risk assessments where they will come round and fit the alarms and give you some face to face advice.
Regards.
L.
More advice to add to get something done :) from 3 more fire advisers.
What concerns me more, is the risk of CO (Carbon Monoxide) poisoning rather than the fire risk. If there are cracks in the chemney and the lady can smell fumes, there is a serious risk of Carbon Monoxide penetrating the buidling as well. The lady could, however buy a CO alarm with a digital readout and report the findings back to the council. That might stirr things up. And CO poisoning is also a hot topic for the local newspaper! The symptoms of CO poisoning are at the initial stage very much like a flue: headache and nausea. So it's easy to miss the symptoms.
Harry
www.safelincs.co.uk
Dont forget IF the smoke is getting into the lady's house through faults in the chimney / flue then it is also likely to be getting into the other house in the same way. The potential for carbon monoxide poisoning should be more than enough of a reason for the environmental health and the landlord to take action.
The environmental health should also take action over the music issue. From personal experience of this some years ago, I know it can be difficult to get them to take an interest. My personal advice from when I had problems with a neighbour's music, is to keep a log of times and dates, duration and your assessment of volume ( can it be heard all over the house or just one room, is the china falling off the shelves etc) then approach the council with this after a couple of weeks of logging it. They should investigate - we got given some specialist equipment for a week that monitored the sound levels at all times - and they should take action once they have this information.
L.
What concerns me more, is the risk of CO (Carbon Monoxide) poisoning rather than the fire risk. If there are cracks in the chemney and the lady can smell fumes, there is a serious risk of Carbon Monoxide penetrating the buidling as well. The lady could, however buy a CO alarm with a digital readout and report the findings back to the council. That might stirr things up. And CO poisoning is also a hot topic for the local newspaper! The symptoms of CO poisoning are at the initial stage very much like a flue: headache and nausea. So it's easy to miss the symptoms.
Harry
www.safelincs.co.uk
Dont forget IF the smoke is getting into the lady's house through faults in the chimney / flue then it is also likely to be getting into the other house in the same way. The potential for carbon monoxide poisoning should be more than enough of a reason for the environmental health and the landlord to take action.
The environmental health should also take action over the music issue. From personal experience of this some years ago, I know it can be difficult to get them to take an interest. My personal advice from when I had problems with a neighbour's music, is to keep a log of times and dates, duration and your assessment of volume ( can it be heard all over the house or just one room, is the china falling off the shelves etc) then approach the council with this after a couple of weeks of logging it. They should investigate - we got given some specialist equipment for a week that monitored the sound levels at all times - and they should take action once they have this information.
L.
and final post:
Of course if you have smoke entering your house then a call to the FRS reporting 'smoke in the house' should evoke a response......................................Once they find the cause, which may well actually be a fire in the timbers around a damaged chiney, they can alert the proper authorities, including LA Environmental Health. CO is a real hazard, but so is the chance that the chimney is damaged enough to cause a substabtial fire in a roof space/roof/hearth etc
At least ring the admin line of the local fire station to ask for a Home Fire Risk Assessment
L. :)
Of course if you have smoke entering your house then a call to the FRS reporting 'smoke in the house' should evoke a response......................................Once they find the cause, which may well actually be a fire in the timbers around a damaged chiney, they can alert the proper authorities, including LA Environmental Health. CO is a real hazard, but so is the chance that the chimney is damaged enough to cause a substabtial fire in a roof space/roof/hearth etc
At least ring the admin line of the local fire station to ask for a Home Fire Risk Assessment
L. :)
Many thanks for the advice. The problem, is of course, invisible fumes not visible smoke. How can you bottle a smell and take it to the letting agents? However, the good news is that FINALLY someone at the Council has actually grasped the nature of the problem and written to the tenants telling them that at a minimum they need to change the chimney terminals and have the chimney swept. No sign of either. I think the problem of bringing a dead chimney back into use would involve the Party Wall Act not to mention building regs J. If up to the LANDLORDS the expense kills the idea. If the problem is handed to the tenants. . . A local councillor is also being prevailed upon. It may be coincidence but the noise levels have gone down since "the authorities" have taken an interest in the address. Call me an old cynic, but I find that VERY interesting indeed.
Obviously, if we get acrid fumes again that make my eyes stream and set my husband coughing for minutes at a stretch I think the Fire Brigade is the only answer.
Many thanks for the advice. It is appreciated.
Obviously, if we get acrid fumes again that make my eyes stream and set my husband coughing for minutes at a stretch I think the Fire Brigade is the only answer.
Many thanks for the advice. It is appreciated.
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