Should the fathers be more responsible?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2009/feb/26/ teenage-pregnancy-rise

Since it now seems obvious that young girls no longer seem able to protect their virtue, and teenage pregnancies continue to rise. Isn't it now time to make the fathers more responsible?

Perhaps it could be made illegal to father a child if under aged?

This seems rather draconian, but we have tried the soft touch methods ie sex education, free contraceptives etc. etc.all to no avail.

Perhaps now we should try much harsher methods, and see if these work?

[Octavius]

�Perhaps it could be made illegal to father a child if under aged?�

And what punishment would you recommend?
A term in a YOI?

[sandmaster]

How can you make it illegal? Having sex with an under age person is illegal but if an under age boy fathers a child what is the point of making that illegal?
However, I do think that an order should be made against future earnings. Personally I'm fed up with paying for others mistakes.

[Oneeyedvic]

Actually, I feel that AOG may have a point - though I would not condone custodial sentences but maybe a financial penalty instead.

Once you have a child, a certain percentage of your salary is taken (direct by employer) towards your baby. If you have no job then a percentage of any income support / benefits are taken.

A second child would increase that percentage etc.

It is important that children realise their responsibilities.

[Octavius]

�Once you have a child, a certain percentage of your salary is taken (direct by employer) towards your baby. If you have no job then a percentage of any income support / benefits are taken.�

And put where? In to the mothers pocket to raise the child?

[Quinlad]

Criminalise the father but not the mother? That's not like you, AOG.

That said, it isn't a good start in life? Being the child of a criminal, having money that would be spent on your upbringing being paid as a fine? Or having no contact whith your dad while he serves a custodial sentence?

Surely we want to be giving this kids the best possible start in life, not ushering them onto a cycle of criminality?

[Oneeyedvic]

And put where? In to the mothers pocket to raise the child?

Partially, and partially to be put into a trust account that the child can have when they turn 16.

[WaldoMcFroog]

The article clearly stated in its opening paragraph that teenage pregnacies have risen for the first time in five years, so it is not at all obvious that "teenage pregnancies continue to rise".

Moreover, the article makes it clear that the existing strategies work extremely well where rigorously implemented; therefore the obvious thing to do is to ensure that the existing strategies are rigorously implemented.

[Octavius]

Vic, would that discourage under age boys to dip their wick, or encourage young girls to entrapment?

On the basis of this vast generalisation and apparent belief, that young girls only get pregnant for the money of course.

[Oneeyedvic]

There is a generalisation, that is true, but it doesn't stop it being true either.

There maybe cases of entrapment - but being honest it is bloody difficult to get pregnant if a bloke is wearing a condom (though I agree that they can break etc).

If we can say to young men - look if you go round and have unprotected sex without thinking though the consequences, that is up to you. But if you do get someone pregnant, it is going to make you financially impaired for the next 16 years, I feel that it may have an effect.

It may not have the desired effect - but what has been the consequence? Only that a mother is getting more money to take care of their child. I realise that they may get pregnant deliberately to get extra money, but that is down to the father - the state is not paying any more to these young ladies.

[anotheoldgit]

I did not say give them a custodial sentence.

I deliberately chose not to put what punishment they should receive, because quiet frankly I do not know.

But it seems that oneeyedvic has got it about right.

[Octavius]

I dunno, tagged with 16 years of financial impairment, I reckon the state will end up paying somewhere. Not forgetting Legal Aid and administration of the scheme.

Most young lads under that age probably wouldn�t know what financial impairment means. Telling them they won�t have much money as they start out in adult life, could potentially ruin their young career aspirations � assuming they might have had some, or just make them get a boost by other means (state handouts, crime etc) and all for what? A young mistake? Look at how students bleat on about their student loans before they have even started working full time.

A young mother would be getting her own income/benefits but also a top up from the father, via the state.

[Oneeyedvic]

Look at how students bleat on about their student loans before they have even started working full time.

Exactly - it works. Students THINK about whether or not to go to Uni - not just take it for granted.

If kids had a financial responsibility, they may well bleat on about it - that's a good thing - it's called growing up.

could potentially ruin their young career aspirations � ... and all for what? A young mistake? Yes - exactly as what would happen to a woman. Her career aspirations may well go down the pan if she gets pregnant to.

In fact, just thinking out loud - if a child doesn't have an income (eg student etc), then the parents may be forced to pay a certain amount.

Sex education needs to be taught in the home (as does all responsible social behaviour) and if parents feel the pinch, then they are more likely to teach their children.

I know of a parent whose kids did not go to school - after being fined and threatened with prison, she dragged the kids to school every day.

It is by no means a perfect situation and will not encompass everyone, but it could well work with quite a few.

[anotheoldgit]

WaldoMcFroog

We cannot afford to be complacent since we already hold the record of having 'the highest teenage pregnancy rate in Europe'.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health -and-wellbeing/health-news/uk-has-highest-teen age-pregnancy-rate-in-europe-397153.html

Quinlad

Criminalise the father but not the mother? That's not like you, AOG.

Ideally it would be best to leave it up to the girl, but since the girls refuse to say NO!!, then it has to be left to the boy.

You see Quinlad If a girl says no, then if he does not want to face a charge of rape, there is little the boy can do.

It is time to face facts, seeing that some teenage girls do no longer have pride or respect in themselves, and their parents no longer threaten them not to 'bring any trouble home' as they once did.Then we must approach the problem from the male side.

[WaldoMcFroog]

Who said anything about being complacent? I said the existing methods, which are provably effective when rigously applied should be rigourously applied. Surely that's the opposite of complacany?

[Octavius]

�Exactly - it works. Students THINK about whether or not to go to Uni - not just take it for granted.�

Students are adults, they are therefore capable of such responsible decision making (in the eyes of the law). They can make the choice not to have that debt, and then go and earn lots of money for themselves. For the youngster who made a mistake before the age of 16, university would not be an option as he might already be saddled with debt. Also, he may have �thought� about protection and contraception, but it might have failed.

[123everton]

There was a concious effort by the powers that be in 80s onwards to help school age mums, this help has become so enticing that it appears to some to be detrimental not to have children very young.
But all the same the cry within feminist groups was that they did'nt need a man to raise a child, men seem to have cottoned onto this and gone "OK tara then."
I see a lot men who act like boys these days, but I suppose when you look at it men used to have a mid life crisis aged around 45-50 because when they were young they were pressured into marriage, then came the kids and the and the carreer and the house,.
Then they've all grown up the house is all paid for what to do?
The things you could'nt do when you were young.
Did Wimmins lib actually free men?
I'm gonna post a thread on that in S&C.

[gelda]

Personally I think kids grow up far to quickly nowadays and I think they get too much sex education at school, they even teach 6& 7 year olds all about sex, let them be children for gods sake, leave it to their parents to teach them when they're old enough like they did in my day! (or perhaps not, looking at some of the parents nowadays!)

[sqad617]

Difficult..............although teenaged pregnancy was present some 40-50 yrs ago, it was not as "epidemic" as it is now. Teenage girls were "scared" to become pregnant and so one took whatever precautions were available.....even abstaining from intercourse.........there are all sorts of other "goodies" available. Then it became the fashion not to be scared of your parents, doctor, police, shoolteacher or indeed ANYONE of authority and hense the permissive society was born.
Now it is a different ball game...life has chavged and our attitudes must change with it. The "horse has bolted" so pointles shutting the stable door.

I hate to say this, but sex education must be taught at school.

[Octavius]

.....and at home.