Urgent Grievance Advice PLEASE

[pipflower]

Hi There, myself and a colleaque have recently been discriminated against for being part-time, we both had a grievance and the reply report came back identical. For the appeal we dissected their report, answer by answer and put our points under each one. As their report was identically laid out, our reports in turn was identically laid out. And as we had the same grievance, some of our answers were the same. (we both shared some experiences and witnesses etc, and made some of the same points). Which were completely true. But at the appeal, the fact that our reports were the same was brought up with raised eyebrows etc and sardonic smiles. (we had seperate hearings) but we were made to feel that by using the same format we have injured our cases. (our Union Rep had advised us to use the format of the reply report from work, and to use the same points as they backed eachother up). It does look like this will go to a tribunal, as its a bit of a messy one, (didnt want to go into too much details) But can anyone put my mind at rest about the layout of our report issue, as I am bit worried. Greatly appreciated, and thankyou once again.

[sue11]

I am presuming that you are worried that your company will try to suggest that you have colluded with your answers and subsequently they will have grounds to suggest that you are being less than truthful? My thoughts are that it does not matter, if what you have said is true it should not make any differerence to how it is laid out or what has been raised. I do not have any legal experience to help you, but your union should and they should be able to point you in the direction of their legal employment advisors. I would ask to speak to them urgently to better understand your position.
Hope this has been of some use, I too have had to go through a nasty disciplinary procedure some years ago, where I was subsquently unfairly dismissed from the company that I was working for. I had the backing of my union, but my rep was useless and allowed me to be bullied by my manager who was screaming at me in the disciplinary meeting (he should have called an immediate stop to the meeting and got me out of there). The company also did not follow correct disciplinary procedures in my case and the end result was that they paid me off to stop me taking them to a tribunal. The whole experience was very stressful, so I can very much sympathise with what you are going through. An important point to remember with all of this, is to ensure that your company has followed correct procedure all the way through, if they do not you could have automatic grounds to win any appeal just on this basis.
Best of luck, keep us informed as to your progress.
Sue

[buildersmate]

Hard to say really without getting into the specifics of the case (which it is perfectly understandable you don't wish to do).
Since you have been advised by your Union Rep, these people generally know their stuff. However given a free choice (of making an identical claim about my employer as another person), I must admit I would have written up the sections in my own words - not agreed on common words, which seems to be what you have done. Does it impact the case? - I don't think so. I should be taken on the facts as presented.
Has your Union Rep told you about using the ACAS Conciliation service as a step prior to consideration of case at ET?

[buildersmate]

The above was constructed prior to reading Sue's comments - though we seem to be seeing similar things.
One thing to add having read it. The law was changed in April this year such that the need for an employer to follow a clear process in dealing with the process was made less important. Sue talks about her case being lost by the employer not following the declared process and it is true that used to lead to an automatic loss of the case by the employer, for not following the process. Not any more.

[pipflower]

Thank you so much for your replies, they have put my mind at rest, I seem to just have myself in a bit of a tizzy, which is what they intended I suppose. My Rep said it shouldnt matter also, and the fact is we do have quite a strong case and witnesses and also evidence to substantiate it. Its very sad though, I loved my job, and one person (a new boss) changed all that and my job.

Thanks again folks.

[sue11]

HI, Buildersmate is correct (as usual!) in the fact that the law has recently changed, my case happened about 16 years ago and things have moved a bit on from now on.
Buildersmate is obviously very much experienced in these matters and has given very sound advice to other posters in previous questions. I am very glad that he (or she!) has been able to provide further advice on this for you. I try to help as much as possible but as I am just an employer using legal advisors myself, I will not always be giving best advice!
Cheers Sue

[buildersmate]

Ah! - so you are out of the job, Pip - I didn't appreciate that from the first post. In which case I don't think my comment about ACAS conciliation applies. I assumed that you were still in work, with a grievance that had gone up the process chain to the top internally and you still wanted to take it further.
So we are dealing with alleged unfair dismissal then? - on grounds on discrimination for being a part-timer?

[pipflower]

Sorry Ive taken so long to reply only just able to get to computer. We have asked for our redundancy to be postponed until this is sorted, the redundancy was not because of the current climate, we work for a huge company thats doing very well, we were both the only p/t working mums in the place. Ive been there 8 years and the other girl has been there 14 years. The new boss wanted full timers and had no time for us mums. We were harrassed and then finally it came to this.

[buildersmate]

OK, your claim is probably on the basis of indirect discrimination then. Selection of individuals for redundancy must be done in a fair way using a fair process. If an employer selects people for redundancy on the basis of 'you're a part-timer', that is likely to be discrimination. Some info here for you to look at but I'm sure your Union will advise you. Good luck.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Resolvi ngWorkplaceDisputes/DiscriminationAtWork/DG_10 026557

BTW, you can ask for your job back as part of the ET case.