Possessive Society?

[Seadragon]

About 2 months ago, a friend had mentioned that whilst in the Supermarket he leaned his arm across a woman's shopping trolley to grab a bag for the purpose of putting some fruit in. The Woman remarked that he had been rude to cross over her trolley and could have said 'excuse me'. After which my friend told the woman that he wasn't being rude and that she shouldn't have parked her trolley infront of the plastic bags thereby blocking access. (laughing, it sounds funny now because he just won't admit he's wrong in anything!) Anyway I told him that I agreed with the woman, he was rude and should have at least said 'excuse me' before reaching for the bags.

Yesterday, whilst in Asda - exactly the same scenario arose. I had my trolley parked by the bananas and a gentleman leaned his arm across to reach for a plastic bag. Instinctively I apologised and started to move my trolley when it dawned on me that my friend may have been right. But when I stopped in the tin section, a woman put her arm across my trolley and reached for a soup tin - And I instinctively thought that was flippin rude! Why?

Then I spent the rest of my time in Asda finishing the shopping and thinking about it. And I figured that as a society we are possessive of our property. That whilst the trolley was mostly empty, I didn't have a problem with someone leaning over my extended private space of the trolley, however once I put shopping into it, although effectively the shopping is the property of the supermarket until paid for, I considered that to be my property. How irrational is that? It's not like I have the only box of Shredded Wheat there or tin of soup? And what would you think if someone actually leaned over and touched your shopping even though they're just asking you politely in which aisle that was from? People just don't do that? I figure that we are an irrational possessive society?

[Sachs]

Yes we are an irrational & possesive society Seadragon & isn't psychology interesting! Why is it we prefer to sit on an unoccupied seat on the bus if we have that option? x

[tamborine]

its ruder to fill the 'goods-access' space with your trolley; v.inconsiderate of other shoppers.

[Sachs]

& I think both are equally rude Sea x

[Seadragon]

I think of my safety Sachs when I have to catch a bus. Rare though as I drive but even if there are only 2 people on a bus sitting at the front, on the left and right and the rest of the bus is empty I would sit on the first available seat next to one of those people, as some bus drivers are wild and my stop is just after a big roundabout and I tend to get flung from side to side before reaching the door. I mean its a mission to reach the pole by the door. Its like a slow motion movie where I can see the pole but there is a wide gap from the pole at the first seat to the one by the door.

I would only regret taking that seat if I realised too late that the person smelt bad. I would move then. Cruel I know. But I think on buses, people tend to respect other peoples space whereas in supermarkets peoples manners, I suppose are more evident. Some would just not reach across another trolley whether it was full or empty or fill the 'goods-access' space?

[coccinelle]

Personally, I wouldn't lean over someone's trolley if they were pushing it, not because they've got stuff in but because it's all part of the person, I'd have to say 'Excuse me'. It wouldn't bother me to lean over an empty trolley as that's just a thing and not attached to a person. In France, we have a tendancy of leaving our trolleys at the top of the aisle or something and often find they've been 'moved' while you've been collecting bits of shopping, I've noticed in the UK people tend to cling onto their trolley from the moment they enter the shop to getting to the till!

[hc4361]

How about taking that last reduced item out of somebody else's trolley before they paid for it, or a reduced price joint of beef?

[andy-hughes]

It is about 'personal space' - a concept which varies from culture to culture.

We holiday in Spain quite often, and I automatically adapt to the way that the Spanish are far less 'contact-concious' than the Brits - they don't queue, they simply push to get past, and they stand a lot closer in conversation, all of which I adapt to without thought, but it did take a lot of getting used to when we first encountered it.

I watched a British woman queuing at the hotle reception, tutting and muttering as Spanish person after Spanish person pushed in front of her. I told her that this is not seen as being impolite here, you simply need to do the same. She looked quite shocked!

[Ankou]

i think you could argue that both instances above do not stem from any modern possessiveness by the individual but more natural human instincts and the ‘pack’ or herd mentality. we are hunter gatherers, our mind tells us that once we have caught our prey that we protect it to ensure others don’t get their hands on it. we will only share it with our ‘pack’ or our herd.

similarly you see these things in nature and in domestic pets. try taking a bone away from a dog or try removing its bowl of food. this isn’t about possessiveness, more about the endemic nature of survival and pack (carrion) protectionism.

[TTG]

I was pushing a shopping trolley around the local Supermarket....as I moved towards her and we passed, a woman remarked to her child "He shouldn't be going round this way!". I had skipped an aisle because I did not need anything from it so ended up going in a different direction to her. I did not realise you had to go the same way around a supermarket!

[Ankou]

not usually, but it is a criminal offence in ikea.

[Seadragon]

All the posts are interesting and funny to read as well as enlightening! To divert - it's funny how reserved the Brits are as I would have informed TTG that he is going the wrong way round - I mean society can only function if we follow the rules as Ankou points out in regard to the point of Ikea. Unfortunately I have tried retracing my steps in Ikea from half way to the near beginning and the disruption of people flow is just so imbalanced - people give such disapproving stares. The delinquent really!

Anyway this will p1ss all the athetics of - but as a Spiritualist, I believe that God was teaching me a lesson. This is my reasoning - As humans, we are the most intellectual beings on this planet and we are constantly confronted with situations that test our reasoning and logic. The supermarket is evidence of a microscopic society - rules apply and we adhere to them. (Coccinelle post regarding French culture etc) Making a presumption of a trolley reasonably loaded with the shopping, why should I respond negatively to the invasion of my space? I think it is more than the 'pack mentality' as taking Shredded Wheat as example, there are 100 other boxes on the shelf? It is unreasonable to feel 'attached' to the one in the trolley, considering it is not effectively mine!

I think God is telling me that I shouldn't be so possessive/attached to objects. A kind of Eastern Philosophy of non-attachment. To the non-believer it may well be evidence of the Western ideas of conscious/unconsciousness at work? And despite me thinking the woman was rude, if I felt driven to shout at or kill her for her action then I would be worried that my Soul is not very good. Fortunately for me, I think these episodes are a good learning experience and I shall learn not to be so possessive over the extention of my personal space without reason or rationale. Don't you think God constantly teaches us better improvement and we may or may not realise the lesson even in a

[Seadragon]

Don't you think God constantly teaches us better improvement and we may or may not realise the lesson in even the most mundane place as the supermarket?

I find it really amusing!

[Seadragon]

You see, I learnt that next time someone leans across my trolley I shall amusingly smile instead of thinking that they are being 'flippin rude' (with the result that one day my thoughts may be put in action.) But now society is a much better place and we can all continue to function well and happy.

[saxy_jag]

It's not so much about them leaning across as touching the food that bothers me. How do I know they haven't got some disease that they're about pass on to me via the food in my trolley, especially if it's fresh and unwrapped.

I suspect, though, that the behaviour is a throwback to the days when we were hunter gatherers. Animal instincts, as it were. You've killed a pig and there's plenty to go round and plenty more out there for the taking, but there's no way you're going to give up your precious spoils to anyone. In these times when privacy and security is becoming a luxury then we feel it more than ever.

Mind you, the woman I encountered today was just plain rude. I was about to step across to the coffee shelf to take what I wanted when this woman with a trolley comes wandering along, having just taken a large jarof coffee from further along the aisle. Thinking she was planning on ambling past, I stood back to let her pass. Ignorant bovine female stopped right in front of me to recheck her shopping, meaning I had no choice but to reach over her trolley to get what I wanted. Dozy mare never even looked up.

[Seadragon]

Apology to you TTG as I made an assumption you are in England. Saxy-Jag that was funny! probably not for you but it reads well. It's just such an irrational behaviour considering the shopping is not even our property until paid for. I think I would worry if my trolley was parked and someone walked by and sneezed directly into it, even if the food was packaged. Thankfully that has never happened and unlikely to. But I will say that should someone accidentally or deliberately fall dead into my shopping trolley - I am not taking any of that shopping home!

[Ankou]

similarly if they put their hand in your trolley and manhandled your packet of cheese by way of inspection, you'd probably put it back on the shelf and get another pack - even though it has been manhandled on to the shelf by a shelf stacker !

[Brinjal]

Politeness never hurt anyone. If the man had said excuse me when he reached across the trolley the woman may have I am sorry for blocking you and moved out of the the and all concerned would have had a nice day. We are too quick to take unnecessary offence at minor daily irritations and we cause ourselves extra stress.