ChatterBank3 mins ago
mmr
I'd like you hear your views on why both Tony Blair and Gordon Brown have not seen fit to reassure parents of the safety of the MMR jab by letting us know whether their babies have had it or not...
I have a 12 month old baby who I am having innoculated by 3 single injections at considerable cost to myself. Had the above 2 politicians said "Of course we have had our children innoculated with the MMR injection..we do practise what we preach after all!" I would definitely have had my fears alleviated!
As it is, we have an autistic school near to us and one day whilst I was at the park with my children, one of their classes arrived. Not wishing to go into detail .. I would much rather pay for the 3 jabs than to risk even the minute possibility of my baby becoming autistic. Not innoculating is not a possibility as I do not want my son to have measles or mumps, neither do I want any other child to catch the disease due to my failure to innoculate my child.
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My own view is this: that even if they had admitted that their own children had had the mmr, it would have made no differerence to me. It would neither have reassured me nor worried me. This is because I believe that there are a tiny minority of people who are predisposed to a bad reaction; probably a statistically insignificant minority. They would probably have to test millions of people to obtain proof that this minority exists, and what percentage of the population it is. (Quite apart from ethical problems of testing of course). Anyway: if my hunch is correct, then the fact that Leo Blair or John Brown has had it, is irrelevant. I think you are doing the best thing in the circumstances, taking the course of action that puts your mind at rest. I don't think it is unreasonable to spend money on the individual vaccines. For the record, my own daughter, now 6, had the mmr without any problems, although if I had known about the individual vaccines I would not have ruled them out. (To be continued).
A friend of mine told me something rather scary. A couple of years ago she was taking her son (then about 13) to some appointments at the Royal Free in London. In the waiting room she got talking to a woman whose son was autistic. This woman told her that the doctors had told her that there was no doubt whatsoever that the mmr vaccine had brought on the autism. There is a sting in the tale though: they added that even if he had not had the mmr, if he had come into contact with the measles virus (for ex. if anyone he knew had it), he would have become autistic anyway - because he was "predisposed". This story made my hair stand on my head but it shows that there are no certainties in this life. You can only do what you feel will improve your odds. On the other hand, I came across an appeal on another forum for information to help a child who had a rare complication of the measles called subacute sclerosing panencephalitis. I looked it up, and it really is scary. So I think there are no real answers here, but as I have already mentioned, you can only do what you feel will improve the odds in your favour. All the best.
I personally think it makes no difference whether Tony Blair, Gordon Brown or anyone else had their children vaccinated.
I've read quite a few posts on this site alone that show that there are a lot of people that don't believe anything they say. As with any government, the ministers are in a no win situation. Whether they try their best or not, tell the truth or not there will always be someone who doesn't believe them and someone who does.
It only takes one person to call them liars and spread doubt and you're back to square one.
Think about it. Tony Blair says that he had his children innoculated and then, supposedly, a nurse at the hospital says it isn't true. The story gets picked up by the media and makes headline news. Do you believe Tony Blair or not? Even if the story is denied, the public will say there's no smoke without fire. There must be some truth to it. I can guarante that even if Tony was telling the truth there would still be doubt in peoples minds.
I have a son with an Autistic spectrum disorder, and I can categorically state that it had nothing whatsoever to do with the MMR vaccination.
I knew within days of his birth that he was "different" his development was slow and he wouldn't make eye contact with others.
I do not believe that the MMR vaccine causes children to become "Autistic" although I do believe that a tiny amount of children can react badly to the vaccine which may cause some form of brain damage.
I don't believe you can "become" autistic. My understanding is that it is a condition you are born with.
I knew within days of his birth that he was "different" his development was slow and he wouldn't make eye contact with others.
I do not believe that the MMR vaccine causes children to become "Autistic" although I do believe that a tiny amount of children can react badly to the vaccine which may cause some form of brain damage.
I don't believe you can "become" autistic. My understanding is that it is a condition you are born with.
Im inclined to agree with DH. Our youngest son showed signs of autism before he had his mmr,lack of eye contact,problems with motor skills etc. Autism is an age old affliction. I was told at the maternity hospital that my son needed oxygen at birth. I often wonder how many babies down the years had too little oxygen at birth thus making them autistic.
Whilst I do not belive what TB says in general, it is a fair question to ask - did or did not Leo have the Jab?
Answer: Yes - excellent - practice what you preach. Okay, someone may call you a liar (but lets face it that happens every day anyway)
Answer: No - obvious next question why not - assumption would be that you do not believe it to be safe - no other logical reason.
Answer - Not telling you - Well, this to me means NO, but I can't really say that can I?
To use an argument that no one would belive me if I said YES is ridiclous - people believe/don't beleive him as a matter of course - all he has caused is uncertainty in people like kerris.
To be honest, although I can't stand the guy, if he did say Yes, i would believe him.
Personally, I don't think that it is safe purely because I don't think that our PM thinks it is safe!
Yes, they should tell us - this old guff about it being personal and private is utter nonsense in this instance: They are telling us it is what we should do it, but are refusing to tell us what they have done. This is hypocrisy of the highest order that even overtakes what that horrible woman Diane Abbott did.
The fact of the matter is that had they told us, which isn't a lot to ask, I would have been reassured: their silence shouts that they have not had it done. Simple as that.
Their silence resulted in hours of research and soul searching by me and my wife, and in the end we decided we would have the mmr: this decision was based on the fact that we have a girl (who are less prone to autism) and that she is a very healthy and sturdy little girl: this was well over a month ago now with no ill effects.
What also convinced us was a C4 documentary, which couldn't have come at a better time, which rubbished the author of the original report, with compelling evidence from his research staff. For instance, did you know that at the time he was writing his report he was in the process of obtaining a patent for his own jab. It strikes me that he couldn't report objectively if he was after his own patent.
I firmly believe that
1. Leo Blair has had the MMR jab
2. Tony Blair has not announced it publicly because it's a private matter with patient-confidentiality
3. There is no evidence whatsoever of any connection between MMR jab and autism
4. (Even though there is no link and that this point is therefore irelevant) I would definitely prefer to be autistic than to be blinded or disabled by measles.
Following on from point 3 on bernados post, a close friend of mine has two girls aged seven and four, neither of whom have had the mmr or the single jabs - personally, I think this is poor parenting, but each to their own I s'pose: Neither him, his wife or his kids have met my child yet because I refused to expose her to unprotected kids.
This action was was probably borne out of ignorance of the subject and was, I suspect, overly paranoid, but nevertheless I wasn't prepared to take the chance.
P155ed him right off when I told him why they hadn't seen her yet.
I would like to say this. Whilst, as I have already mentioned, my daughter had the mmr without problems, I once asked an acquaintance, who happens to be a consultant paediatrician in an NHS hospital, why they press on with the mmr instead of offering the chance to opt for individual injections. She gave me several reasons but basically they were all about cost and convenience. She said if people had to be keep three appointments instead of one it would be an administrative nightmare to keep track of them; people often don't come back for their second or third appointment and it would be costly and time consuming to chase them. And presumably it would take three times as many nurses or three times as long.
I agree with the point that it is a private matter whether these people have used the vaccine or not. Anyway - there is no concern about the 3 in 1 as this scare was concocted by a doctor wanting to introduce his own vaccine onto the market - if I remember right! The 'link' is purely coincidence. They have the vaccine at the age when autism starts to show itself. These scaremongers have a lot to answer for. ggrrrrr!
I have read all your answers and I thank you immensely! There are a few points that have provoked thought with me. Wraith (are you a fan of Stargate Atlantis?) says that if Tony Blair had had Leo vaccinated and "a nurse at the hospital says it isn't true," then it would cause doubt still... Similarly, what worries me is that no-one has come forward to say that the child HAS had the MMR!! No doctor's receptionist, no nurse, no one at all has "leaked" a story to the press confirming the innoculations. Surely there would be someone, somewhere??
Also, Bernardo firmly believes that Leo has had the MMR. Unless he has the inside information, how can anyone 'firmly' believe what has not been confirmed?
I am also in turmoil again as like ursula62, I read the report about the two children who "turned" autistic after the single measles jab. Perhaps it is the vaccine itself that has the "autism fluid" in it and not the combination. Perhaps the autism was present already but was not picked up on by any of the parents until it was really noticable. My son shows not one trait of autism. He has excellent eye contact, says several meaningful words, has good motor skill, can problem solve, sleeps well, did not receive oxygen at birth, has a sunny disposition and has a head which has grown along the same centile since birth.
I am telling you all this because I have received notification from the NHS that it's time!!
I will keep everyone posted in the next few weeks!
kerris - only you can make the decision about whether to give your son the mmr vaccine, and in common with some of the people who have already posted I wouldn't give 2 hoots what the prime minister or chancellor did with their own children, they are not me and I am not them - I made my own decision. The only thing I want to add is that in your question you seemed to be saying that autism is a completely terrible thing - I think you need to read more about it, and understand that it is a spectrum of "disorders" that can range from mild eccentricity to serious impairment. Several contributors have direct experience of autism, as do I - my daughter is on the spectrum, and I must say that she is the happiest, healthiest, most rewarding and affectionate child you could hope to meet. Above all, she is herself - her brain is wired up slightly differently from mine and her brother's, but all children have their differences, and that is why we love them. If your son does turn out to be autistic (and it sounds unlikely from your description) he will still be your precious son, so don't get too caught up with all the speculation about autism and mmr. If you feel happier with the single jabs, then go for it and don't look back, just enjoy your lovely son.
Research shows that the mmr vaccine doesn't cause autism. However, there are preliminary findings that a preservative used in vaccines, thimerosal, caused autism-like behavior and physical changes in mice that are susceptible to autoimmune disorders. While I feel this is cause for concern, thimerosal (a mercury-based preservative) is supposed to be removed from most childhood vaccines. I'd suggest you do your research and talk to your doctor about preservative-free vaccines. They are a bit more expensive but not astronomically so. I think the current belief is that problems can happen when children must "catch up" on shots and have more than one at a time or have them very close together (with all the preservatives accumulating in the body.) I read one article (in People magazine, of all places) where a mother had her autistic son's mercury levels checked (via a hair sample) and he had 50 times the levels he should have had.
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